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We need a Scottish Parliament election thread

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  1. jonty
    Member

    It is very possible to do good things while holding bigoted views, unfortunately. Ross Greer, second on that list, has managed to remain happily ensconced as a Green MSP by managing to achieve one while avoiding the other. Alyn Smith is on that list too - not quite up-to-date on his story but I don't think his uncompromising support for LGBT rights has served him quite so well in the SNP recently.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. unhurt
    Member

    What Jonty said.

    Also, weird implication that no-one actually cares about transphobia and it must surely only be an excuse.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. jonty
    Member

    It's a bit bizarre to use the the Brexit case claimants as an example of "mature" people who recognise that trans rights aren't a big issue when one of them is currently leading a case to guarantee timely access to urgent medical treatment for trans people.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. wingpig
    Member

    You don't have to either entirely support people and their actions or entirely disapprove of them. Another name which popped out at me on that list was Jolyon Maugham - helping attempt to defeat Brexit is one thing, but beating a fox to death with a golf bat and admitting doing so on Twitter is quite another.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    You don't have to entirely support people and their actions or entirely disapprove of them.

    Exactly. There isn't a single human being alive I agree with entirely. I disagree with the 'me' of even ten years ago quite a lot. I do not plan to expel myself from anything.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. unhurt
    Member

    Wightman expelled himself.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. unhurt
    Member

    You don't have to either entirely support people and their actions or entirely disapprove of them.

    "You" here is presumably an individual, not a political party.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    The Westminster group of SNP MPs held an emergency meeting this morning, The Scotsman understands, and Ms Cherry, MP for Edinburgh South West since the 2015 General Election, was removed from her frontbench role.

    The move comes after a week of intense internal strife within the SNP which saw many members quit over an on-going row over a conflict between women’s rights and the extension of rights for trans people.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/joanna-cherry-sacked-snp-frontbench-3119716

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. jonty
    Member

    You know it is a busy week in Scottish politics when your Scotsman free weekly article allowance runs out on Monday!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    I was thinking of writing "One does not..." but it frequently sounds wrong coming from me. I was thinking more of individual general support of individual people. Plenty of people who liked Father Ted, grew up reading Harry Potter or based their teenage emotional expectations on Smiths songs have had to de-shrine their idols or drop their heroes recently. Past performance is not an indicator of always being right about things, or of holding the correct view.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I'm still entirely in the dark about what Ms Cherry has supposedly done that's so awful.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    She offended someone, well lots of people and may or may not be (partly) responsible for some people leaving the SNP recently and may or may not be being given the fallperson role, which might make things better/worse.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    But what has she done? Offending a few people is part and parcel of being a campaigner. She's a Catholic lesbian Scottish nationalist and a lawyer. That's enough to give a fair few folk an aneurism.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. jonty
    Member

    I think defending an author who compared the existence of transgender people to the Holocaust was the final straw for many.

    https://twitter.com/DavidPaisley/status/1354026031309615106?s=20

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    “She's a Catholic lesbian Scottish nationalist and a lawyer.”

    Ah, so she doesn’t need to have done anything...(?)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @jonty

    Still none the wiser. What's she supposed to have done?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. gembo
    Member

    Twitter, I think on the balance of probability, not so good.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    "have had to de-shrine their idols or drop their heroes recently. "

    Not necessarily.

    We can see the work of an artist as distinct from the personality and character flaws of the artist. Caravaggio was a great painter, but a flawed human being, for example.

    In similar vein, we can make a distinction between sex and gender. The crux of what really happened with Andy Wightman and the Scottish Greens was an attempt to change the legal distinctions between sex and gender in a very specific set of circumstances. Any divergence from the party position relative to these distinctions was not, it seems, acceptable.

    That's as far as I'm prepared to go into the matter of sex relative to gender, except to say that the folk on here bandying around accusations of transphobia are not only wide of the mark, but out of order too. You do realise you're making Andy's point for him?

    I am very disappointed with the rather sanctimonious, verging on arrogant, statement by Lorna Slater. To think I helped this person, leafleting and campaigning on their behalf (in the days before being elected Co-Leader I hasten to add). How people change when they get the scent of power in their nostrils...

    Good riddance to the Scottish Greens. The ludicrous polarisation around certain very narrow points of identity politics is undermining what used to be the core messages of the party. What a shrill and intolerant little sect it is becoming.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    except to say that the folk on here bandying around accusations

    Good riddance to the Scottish Greens. The ludicrous polarisation around certain very narrow points of identity politics is undermining what used to be the core messages of the party. What a shrill and intolerant little sect it is becoming.

    I’m sure CCE’s ‘tradition’ for robust politeness and sticking to the point (in-joke) will endure.

    This thread is about the forthcoming election and party/individual political manoeuvring.

    None of the Parties are behaving particularly well - what’s new you say?!

    At a time of Covid, rising unemployment, climate crises etc, most of it just seems (to me, I only ever speak for me) disappointing and distressing.

    ‘We’ (the non-politicians) deserve better.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. wingpig
    Member

    After one of Morrisey's recent outbursts Stephen Collins did a good wee cartoon mentioning the separation of art from artist. See also the recent complaints about the framing/headlines of Phil Spector obituaries. Does it make a difference if you're looking at the art of or discussing the philosophical ideas of the long-dead flawed or watching the films or buying the books of the still-living flawed, from which they could materially benefit?

    Political parties can be useful for some things, but when one the leader of one decade's viable-opposition-to-Tories (approve) does some lies about weapons of mass destruction to support some war the next (disapprove) it highlights the risk of expressing support too broadly.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    ‘We’ (the non-politicians) deserve better.

    Very much so. So we'll have to do it ourselves then won't we?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. crowriver
    Member

    Technically this is Westminster, but still relevant to Edinburgh politics and indeed this thread as Joanna Cherry's name has come up a few times.

    ---

    Joanna Cherry QC @joannaccherry

    Despite hard work, results & a strong reputation I’ve been sacked today from @theSNP front bench. My constituents & fellow party members who gave me a resounding mandate in recent NEC elections should rest assured that I will continue to work hard for them.

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356233346565730304

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “and indeed this thread“

    Indeed!

    Like it or not much of this is because of the SP election all sorts of ‘we are not them’.

    The manifestos will be interesting (no really).

    So will the turnout (as well as the result).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    “So we'll have to do it ourselves then won't we?“

    Which is always one of the dilemmas. Who would want to join an organisation that frequently turns on its members.

    The None of the Above Party would probably get votes, and then?

    I thing it’s safe to say that quite a few people on here are involved in political activities, without being in Parties.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Frenchy
    Member

    Still none the wiser. What's she supposed to have done?

    This, written by a trans woman, was the best summary I could find in a brief look.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    That doesn't cite any actions on her part that I can see. It seems to be an accusation of some kind of apostasy or heresy in relation to opinions she is suggested to hold.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. jonty
    Member

    I'm not sure what definition of 'action' you're using here? That blog was a big list of things she's done - actions she's taken - which further the cause of denying human rights to a minority group.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. gembo
    Member

    Takes a Trans exclusionary radical feminist stance on Twitter?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. unhurt
    Member

    Very strange to see people who claim to care greatly about words claiming words are without meaning, power or impact.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. LaidBack
    Member

    What do other parties say about transgender rights? Unionist parties may think this is something that is only an SNP / Green issue but the debate is getting wider. (On a cycling forum eg)
    Has Monica Lennon or Anas Sarwar got a view on the issue?

    Posted 1 year ago #

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