CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

We need a Scottish Parliament election thread

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    “@chdot so nothing to say re: rule 1 and the implication of two comments in the same thread then?”

    My comments can be taken as relating to those too.

    My personal rule as ONE of the moderators on here is to intervene as little as possible and rely on degrees of self control.

    There are issues where people have and do take opposing views eg HELMETS.

    In the past such things occasionally got ‘out of hand’. Arguable helmets is more relevant to this forum than some other things, but CCE has always dealt with a wide range of things which sometimes incite passions and (potentially or actually) divisions.

    Sadly ‘these days’ some things seem beyond reasonable debate and rational outcomes (and other similar loaded terms).

    Play nice (everyone), just accept that on some issues people have views that won’t be altered easily (or at all). It might be that some views are ‘wrong’ and that societally things change. But the process is seldom simple or straightforward.

    ‘We’ might agree on 20mph or segregated cycle infrastructure but we are aware that not everyone agrees. On some level we are a persecuted minority. That may sound crass, but people are killed while cycling. Context is important.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. Morningsider
    Member

    I suppose it was only a matter of time before an elder statesman from Fife had to stage an intervention.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    @jonty,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobby_Lud

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    @Morningsider, do you refer to the Son Of The Manse?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    “It's your forum - I guess you get to decide who's welcome here.“

    Yes but no.

    The forum is essentially the product of the people who post here.

    Most of those on now have been here a while and know/like/accept the way things (99.9% of the time) are.

    I know one person who left because they couldn’t handle the thread drift (there may be others!)

    The only people who are unwelcome are those who make themselves unwelcome. Only one person has ever been banned. Eventually they broke rule 2 having spent a lot of time being disagreeable because no one was taking their grand plan seriously.

    It has often been mentioned that CCE is most welcoming to people ‘new to cycling’ and offer great advice and encouragement.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    “do you refer to the Son Of The Manse?“

    Don’t think he’s ever been a member of CCE.

    I’ll check...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. Frenchy
    Member

    May be worth pointing that the blog I linked to yesterday now includes a link to this thread:

    "1 February: I am pleased to report that she has been sacked from the SNP Westminster front bench. Thanks to City Cycling Edinburgh for letting me know."

    CCE, as it often does, providing useful services. I have no idea if Clare was already reading the forum, or if me linking her blog here alerted her to it.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Is that good?

    I know ‘we’ usually beat the EN to stuff, but...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. Arellcat
    Moderator

    On some level we are a persecuted minority. That may sound crass, but people are killed while cycling. Context is important.

    There are influential people amongst our countries' leadership who would like to remove from certain minorities the right to exist. Cyclists are not persecuted in the way that LGBTI+ people are persecuted. People in the LGBTI+ community - and especially trans people - are being killed just for being alive.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. Morningsider
    Member

    @crowriver - oh, I see where the confusion may have arisen. Gordon Brown is AN elder statesman from Fife. @chdot is THE elder statesman from Fife.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    @Morningsider, I stand corrected. Context is all...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    ADMIN EDIT BY CHDOT

    I am removing this post because IN MY VIEW it misrepresents a previous post in a way that could be seen as inflammatory (inadvertently) or provocative (deliberately).

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. crowriver
    Member

    @IWRATS, as far as I can tell she committed the sin of offending some people. Or some people were offended by her stance on women's sex based rights. Or something.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. acsimpson
    Member

    @Arellcat, without disagreeing at all or suggesting that the level of persecution worldwide is comparable I feel that this xkcd comic is relevant.
    https://xkcd.com/2368/

    There are no doubt politicians with deep rooted hatred of trans people. However there are also plenty with a similar deep rooted hatred of cyclists. I am not aware of any cases of a trans person being killed and the perpetrator getting away with a slap on the wrist but there are sadly too many cases each year of people killing cyclists and getting away with it. If you take a punishment pass as a death threat (what else is it) then I would also suggest the level of vitriol directed at neither group by a minority of society can be ignored. I will grant however that as a cyclist I have never felt threatened in my own home.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @chdot

    Apologies for overstepping. I shall mind my manners.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Thanks for apology, but in this case I think you had misinterpreted something (accidentally) and, under the circumstances, best removed.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Quite possibly, aye. I'll mind my manners anyway. One always should.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I don't think she was sacked becasue of her view on the important issues raised above.

    Also the SNP doesn't sack people because of incompetence (or other serious reasons), see former finance minister, the current education minister (though he is quite personable), health minister etc.

    It's more likely she was sacked because of her views on the route to independance, she simply speaks her mind and not that of the hive, and that's not allowed.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. gembo
    Member

    I read the debate between the supporters of the Trans communities (Ihope I am one) and the TERFs as being very binary.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    “It's more likely she was sacked because of her views on the route to independance“

    I think that’s the primary reason, but whether that was enough has not (as far as I know) been made clear.

    The recent loss of ‘young’ people is also an SNP concern. Whether that is iin any way related to JC is clearly being debated.

    Whether that is/isn’t helpful to the SNP/leadership is perhaps beyond the brainpower of CCE!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. LaidBack
    Member

    Been quite an afternoon here.

    Does demonstrate how easily it is for things to go a bit OTT - but of course with factors such as identity it is incredibly personal.
    Cycling is personal but you can choose not to cycle - as a large majority of people do.

    Forum has a general civilised feel to it but hard to cover LGBTQ as not all people even in that group will agree on everything (J Cherry is an 'L' in that title).

    Round the corner the Greenwood has now become this.

    The Greenwood We are an LGBT+ friendly cafe and art space for all ages and identities! Open Tuesday to Sunday from 8AM with a wide variety of hot and cold food and drinks, lots of work by local queer artists, and monthly exhibitions!
    1,893 people like this

    We continue to support as they get stuff from Dough Re Mi - I think it's better that people get out and find that they have more in common than live in ignorance. Irene and knew Polly and she put so much into that business - nice to see the new couple taking over.
    Note that it was marketed as a queer cafe but uses LGBT+ ... is complex. In the end the guys make nice soup and coffee and sell Polly's excellent Rook and Raven chocolate. (Try out Dracula which has cherry and passionfruit - 54.5% dark chocolate)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “being very binary“

    TALKING GENERALLY -

    That is of course part of the problem - the absolute black/white of truth/certainty.

    That’s not the same as saying ‘nothing is ever completely right or wrong’.

    Any debate based on disputed ‘facts’, plain lies, conviction, belief(s) etc. is bound to be difficult.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    @Morningsider, suppose it could also have been Menzies Campbell, but I understand he is originally from The Dear Green Place so does not count as from The Kingdom, even though he may reside there still.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. jonty
    Member

    > I am not aware of any cases of a trans person being killed and the perpetrator getting away with a slap on the wrist

    This is, I'm afraid, very common globally.

    https://transrespect.org/en/tmm-update-tdor-2020/

    Fortunately, there have been no reported murders in the UK recently - I'm not sure what the statistics are from assault. Transgender people are more likely to die by suicide in the UK. This reminds us that whatever injustices we face, we can always to get off a bike if it all gets a bit much; but you can't shed your identity so easily.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    The strategy warns the party to brace for a backlash from “Scots and younger remain voters”, especially ahead of the Holyrood elections in May.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/labour-urged-to-focus-on-flag-and-patriotism-to-win-voters-trust-leak-reveals

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    The biggest risk of all, as acknowledged by the party strategists, is that Starmer’s patriot act will turn off those voters who Labour still believes it can rely on – the young and the ethnic minorities. And it may well drive away its last bastions of support in the increasingly independent-minded Scotland.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/keir-starmer-patriot-act-risks-turning-off-core-labour-voters

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    JessRose #BLM
    @Jessthelefty

    The fact that Jeremy Clarkson supports Keir Starmer tells you everything you need to know about the current Labour Party.

    https://twitter.com/Jessthelefty/status/1356421735114035200

    “Starmer has welcomed an endorsement from former Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson, suggesting it is a sign "that people are beginning to notice that the Labour party has changed."”

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The things that matter to me are, broadly;

    1) The changing composition of our atmosphere
    2) Preserving what little democracy we have left
    3) Preserving, expanding and deepening Scottish culture and nationhood

    So I might expect to be able to look at the Scottish Greens as a home for one or both of my votes.

    But then this.

    The deleted material showed Patrick Harvey talking at best disrespectfully of Andy Wightman, his erstwhile colleague. Who is now talking to lawyers.

    Both the Scottish Greens and the SNP appear to be split by a religious schism of some kind. Disagreements have become accusations of heresy and apostasy and there seems no way in which the issues can be resolved by discussion. Some fairly niche beliefs appear to have acquired the status of gospel. People are unbending.

    If Andy stands on the list I will do what I can to get him elected but for the first time in my lie I may be unable to cast a constituency vote. I don't think the principles of the Enlightenment are above debate (because no idea is) but they are dear to me. I view any party that doesn't adhere to them as frankly dangerous to all three of the points above.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Cat, pigeons?

    Scottish independence: National Membership Organisation to launch this weekend

    https://archive.is/Ksp03

    Posted 3 years ago #

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