CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

We need a Scottish Parliament election thread

(1355 posts)

No tags yet.


  1. jonty
    Member

    I've long been a fan of the AMS system used for Scottish Parliament elections - and still am when it's compared to Westminster's FPTP - but all the tactical nonsense this election has convinced me it's probably time to simplify things and go council-style STV for everything.

    Big-party politicians like to pretend that single-vote systems are nice and simple, but really it just forces voters to play 3D tactical voting chess in their head for fear of wasting their vote - directly benefiting the established parties and obscuring people's actual preferences.

    The one downside of STV is the risk that if folk want to vote for Party A (as opposed to certain individuals) they need to vote for all their candidates in exactly the right order, otherwise they risk spreading the vote and letting someone else in by accident. I think I'd be happy to allow party lists for that reason. People say that being able to express preferences for individuals is important to them, but if you object to one candidate on a list of three then maybe that party isn't for you! It would also get rid of those weird by-elections which just deliver the largest party another seat.

    I notice that England is - infuriatingly - going the other way.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. LaidBack
    Member

    Correction from earlier.

    LibDems now rightly in fifth place. Driven there by Willie Rennie in a Lamborghini Huracan supercar. This in the year of COP26!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. jdanielp
    Member

    Little Willie Style

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Stickman
    Member

  5. chdot
    Admin

    But she said she would not be taking two salaries, donating her councillor's allowance to two local charities.

    Yes well but

    (Not just her who is double jobbing)

    ‘The public’ is paying twice and presumably not getting the same as two people doing two jobs (more so if MP/MSP).

    So why does anyone get the opportunity to pass public money to a charity of their choice?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

  7. acsimpson
    Member

    someone on an MSP salary can no doubt claim back a lot of tax by donating a councillors salary to a charity of their choosing.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    @acsimpson, no doubt. Pay less tax while dressing it up as altruism.

    Interesting how self-serving Webber's arguments are for staying on not only as councillor but transport brief too. Never underestimate the power of a hobby horse crusade.

    With the likes of this post-truth populist joining the Tory ranks at Holyrood, Scottish politics is getting more Trump/Brexit/Johnson tinged with every passing day...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. urchaidh
    Member

    <rule2>socks!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

  11. gembo
    Member

    Perhaps Veberloonie will burst a blood vessel doing two jobs?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo, ever the optimist.

    Sounds more like she plans to keep spouting the same nonsensical bile while drawing two publicly funded salaries. Same amount of work, much more pay.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    @crow, should not be allowed. She has what you might term A brass neck

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. crowriver
    Member

    @chdot, funny one that. The two MPs in question have changed parties, but AFAIK have not taken on other jobs, unlike Douglas Ross for example.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. acsimpson
    Member

    The council by-election process does push people to avoid resigning in Webber position. If she does then tories will loose her seat as it will be done on a FPTP system.

    I doubt it would change her mind but is there a better way this could be done? Something like the Holyrood system where sitting parties are penalised for already having seats in the ward.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Frenchy
    Member

    I doubt it would change her mind but is there a better way this could be done?

    One option is "recounting", which I think is used in Australian elections. Basically you count the votes in the last election again, but ignore the candidate who's just died/resigned, so their votes are transferred.

    Such a system encourages parties to stand multiple candidates in each ward, which can also be seen as an advantage, since it offers voters a choice of candidates within a party.

    EDIT: I have a certain amount of sympathy with her points about the next election only being a year away, councillor being a part time role etc. I am surprised she's continuing as transport spokesperson though, as surely there's another councillor willing and able to do it?

    Also worth noting that the Conservatives had a healthy lead in her ward at the last election (41% first preferences, against 29% for the SNP), so it's unlikely that a fear of losing the by-election is what's preventing her from resigning.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. Frenchy
    Member

    Alison Johnstone has been selected as Presiding Officer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. Rosie
    Member

    I suppose that means she can't take part in debates or initiate legislation. Rather sad as she does speak up for cycling and was on some cycling committee.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. jonty
    Member

    As I said above I think they should permit party lists in STV and award the seat to the next person on the list (or if the list is exhausted/it's a single person, do the recounting thing). It's hard enough getting people motivated about full council elections, let alone by-elections.

    Certain people get very particular about not being able to select individuals, but I don't think this is a concern for the vast majority of the electorate. Is a list of 3-5 local people who are going to work as a team anyway really much less personal than a 'list' of 1?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Morningsider
    Member

    Hmmm - Alison Johnstone was elected Presiding Officer as follows:

    For: 97
    Against: 28
    Abstentions: 2
    Spoiled: 1

    There are 31 Tory MSPs - coincidence?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. gembo
    Member

    Tory in Colinton should prevail?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. Frenchy
    Member

    There are 31 Tory MSPs - coincidence?

    Presiding Officer ballot is still done in secret, right?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. 14Westfield
    Member

    Why would the conservatives be against a Green presiding officer?

    They benefit from not having to take a double turn and don’t reduce the number of pro union MSPs in normal votes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    “Presiding Officer ballot is still done in secret, right?”

    Yes

    “Why would the conservatives be against a Green presiding officer?“

    Principle

    (No idea which one)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. wingpig
    Member

    "Principle

    (No idea which one)"

    The one which insists on 'balance' in TV/radio debates by giving frothing wingnuts equal or greater airtime to rebut the views of the sensible? Perhaps they want a second PO from an evil party to ensure socially unjust viewpoints are able to be expressed uncontested.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. jonty
    Member

    The PO gets the final say on whether legislation submitted for debate is within the Scottish Parliament's competency (unless challenged in court). The PO is expected to act impartially but unionists may be concerned about the impartial decision this particular PO might might on one particular bit of legislation likely emerge this term.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. acsimpson
    Member

    @Wingpig, It's the kind of strange "balance" which gives rise to this article. No one was crazy enough to claim giraffes hadn't arrived in Edinburgh so then went for the all zoos are bad line.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-57071464

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. Frenchy
    Member

    Michael Matheson remains in charge of transport, although his title is now "Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero, Energy and Transport" rather than "Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity".

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    Oh well. I suppose we can look forward to more announcements about electric cars and self-driving buses then. They've go top use all those new trunk roads for something, after all...

    Posted 2 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin