I know I've used this before, but once more with feeling:
"It is difficult to get a (person) to understand something, when their (selection) depends upon their not understanding it."
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
News on LTNs? (Leith/Corstorphine/East Craigs Connections/Oxford)
(359 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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I am generally pro-LTN, meaning I am for public transport, quieter streets, and cleaner air. I run a Twitter account in support of my local LTN in Leith that has over 900 followers. But even I can understand how toxic ths debate has become. Further, I’m not going to pretend an LTN, or even a network, in any way addresses the true scale of the problems we face.
“
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think I agree with the author of that article, but it is such a jumble of issues that I'm not entirely sure. I would take issue with the claim that Traffic Regulation Orders are "a quirk of our Scottish legal system". The TRO system applies across Britain, and has done so since 1984.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Personally, I wouldn't try to connect LTNs with "saving the planet" and the climate crisis.
Sure, when the entire country is LTNs, with all through traffic confined to main roads, that will help a bit toward carbon emissions. (This could be achieved more or less overnight if there were the political will). But to prevent climate breakdown getting worse, we need massive systemic changes, including to the planning system.
Of course LTNs are about far more than modest carbon reductions. This is because they:
- halve road injuries
- halve motor vehicle movements
- cut street crime
- reduce noise
- make neighbourhoods more inclusive and sociable
- improve air quality, even at boundaries
- allow space for naturePosted 1 year ago # -
Hard agree, neddie. These are all things that people were surprised by and really enjoyed when traffic reductions were forced upon them in lockdown.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Increasingly I view it as sensible and economical roads engineering - it is simply not possible to maintain every inch of road surface to 'main road' standards, let alone ensure there's appropriate pedestrian and cycle infrastructure on it too. So we designate main roads and ensure they are well surfaced and full of crossings and bike lanes etc. and make sure the residential streets are barely used by motor traffic.
It's also worth noting that they often make all modes of traffic flow more smoothly, safely and predictably round the edges too - fewer junctions are required, with simpler designs and you eliminate the problem of hoardes of traffic sitting trying to make ill-judged right turns on and off the main road in an attempt to access their favourite rat run.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well said, jonty
Posted 1 year ago # -
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Fears quiet-street measures that have been part of traffic planning since 1960s could be scrapped in culture war
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Posted 1 year ago # -
This might turn out to be a good thing. Any attempt to open a longstanding LTN to through traffic is likely to provoke fierce opposition from local residents.
Posted 1 year ago # -
We can start with Downing Street
Posted 1 year ago # -
I suspect there will be no review, or at least any meaningful review. Certainly no actual grubbing up of bollards. This was an announcement to generate headlines and distract from the UK Government's failings.
Why do I think this? Mainly because there is no legislative mechanism allowing national Government to order a local authority to remove modal filters or other LTN infrastructure. So after any review there would need to be new primary legislation, which would first need to be consulted upon and then work its way through Parliament. Two to three years for all this would seem a reasonable timescale. There simply isn't time in this session of Parliament, which has about 16 months max to run, to do this.
The "review" is not without consequence though. Such announcements make it just that bit harder for local authorities to introduce LTNs. It emboldens opponents and demoralises supporters. All of which is depressing enough, even if it is never followed through.
Posted 1 year ago # -
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Exciting news to see the latest data from the hugely popular Fox Lane Low Traffic Neighbourhood in Enfield which shows that traffic has DECREASED on ALL LTN BOUNDARY roads sometimes by as much as 20%. A short thread 1/4
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https://twitter.com/ianbarnes2001/status/1693983952288288776?
Posted 1 year ago # -
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Which interventions reduce car use in European cities?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213624X22000281
Which transport policies make a city's population healthier and more active? https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214140522001608
Hint: Circulation plan enforced using Liveable (Low Traffic) Neighbourhoods
“
Posted 1 year ago # -
Scott Arthur visited Corstorphine again to seek out traffic chaos. Once again, his quest was unsuccessful.
https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1694969480328175949
He is also getting some quite unhinged abuse about the permanent widening of pavements on Corstorphine High Street.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I wonder how many of the folk ranting about the wider pavements were recently (wrongly) decrying the LTN for restricting the ability of disabled people to get about unhindered.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yeah will be big overlap on the Venn Diagram
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Morningsider: one of the founders of “Accessible Corstorphine for Everyone” had previously agreed with me that the High Street pavements were incredibly narrow, but that was only her personal view.
Presumably as Accessible Corstorphine for Everyone recently told TEC all changes must be removed then we can assume accessibility for everyone doesn’t include better pavements.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I honestly can't keep up the changes in how words are used these days. For instance, only now do I realise that "everyone" can now mean "me".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Pity you couldn’t keep your promise to write to all affected residents. Oh, how many complaints did you receive about the narrow pavements? They were wide enough for me in my wheelchair.
https://twitter.com/grantdouglas5/status/1695043788417171619
Residents in the area have been complaining for years and the school have repeatedly asked for wider pavements. Utterly astonishing how toxic this has become.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@morningsider, everyone appears on the same list as moving. Moving of course means driving in these people's vocabularies.
Posted 1 year ago # -
“
More voters annoyed by cars than by traffic calming measures, polling suggests
Exclusive: More people said there was too much space for cars than said the same about anti-traffic measures
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Posted 1 year ago # -
No surprise to anyone, but the Edinburgh LibDems are demanding immediate removal of the Corstorphine scheme, citing the consultation. The consultation, which the Edinburgh LibDem leader praised when he voted for the Corstorphine scheme.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Don't suppose Cllr Lang has commented on that?
Posted 1 year ago # -
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A butterfly on Dock Street. Something that wouldn't have happened a few months ago... I was in a queue to get a snap of it. #ltn
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https://twitter.com/LeithLtn/status/1697589597545402421?s=20
Posted 1 year ago # -
Results of traffic monitoring after one month of the Corstorphine scheme show no evidence of massive traffic disruption:
https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/33799/1-month-results-post-installation-of-new-measures-
The bit that stood out for me was that on Station Road (which we were assured would become a gridlocked alternative ratrun) the northbound traffic halved during Manse Road bus gate hours.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oddly the graphs seems to show the traffic increasing there, while the tabled data shows a decrease. Something isn't quite adding up.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Regardless of any statistics being provided I don't think ACE will acknowledge them unless they are EXACTLY what their campaign claim is happening.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@acsimpson: yeah, I wonder if it’s some statistical quirk of plotting the maximum flow calculated in 15 minute starting points vs the flow over the whole period. Or it might just be wrong.
In any event, the claims of “constant gridlock” aren’t supported by this data.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I regularly walk up Station Road as I live close by. At rush hours it definitely seems like more traffic is passing through as it's regularly backed up well past Paddockholm. It comes in bunches, presumably with the timings of the lights at the Guvvy Buildings crossroads but seems to get through the junction onto SJR at about walking pace, so the last vehicle is through with a short lull before the next lot appear.
Maybe that accounts for the anomaly mentioned by acsimpson.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I see the bus gate camera has been replaced, lets hope with a reinforced (booby trapped) pole this time.
Posted 1 year ago #
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