CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

‘15 minute city’ or ‘20-minute neighborhood’?

(16 posts)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Discuss

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_minute_city

    https://www.eugene-or.gov/1216/What-is-a-20-Minute-Neighborhood

    Apparently one person (perhaps more??) in Transport Scotland is interested in the idea.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    20 minute Neighbourhoods are hip in CEC

    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Evidence?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. Morningsider
    Member

    With our current planning system, where developers hold the whip hand, there is no realistic prospect of 20 minute neighbourhoods becoming a reality, unless by accident - say a development is built right next to an existing established community.

    How would such neighbourhoods be made to happen? I simply cannot see a mechanism. If anyone thinks "oh, here he goes again with the negativity" remember that national planning policy has directed development to town centres since at least 1998. How many major out-of-town developments have been given the go-ahead in that time and what has happened to our town centres.

    Just like "town centre first", "20-minute neighbourhoods" is currently meaningless nonsense. It's not that they couldn't happen - but it would take meaningful local authority land acquisition, masterplanning, high density development, mixed-use developments and so on - plan driven development (based on community aspirations) rather than commercially driven development. None of which are a feature of the current planning and development system.

    Tell me I'm wrong!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    “Tell me I'm wrong!“

    Mostly not.

    Depends how much/timescale the ‘plan’ is for.

    Best option is likely to be small areas (like LTNs) that may or may not begin to join up, plus, in a few towns/cities, well thought out centres.

    Would need serious Gov intent (inc changes in planning laws) PLUS some serious money for LAs do some of the work required.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Gets mentioned in most meetings most days

    In some senses Balerno is a twenty minute community already

    But that does not stop cats parking on double yellow lines outside Scotmid despite there being a perfectly good car park twenty seconds away by foot from the shop. With their motors running.

    Or creating massive traffic on the arterial route

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    “Gets mentioned in most meetings most days“

    Now I understand your use of the word “hip”.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. mcairney
    Member

    @gembo those cats in Balerno must be pretty advanced!
    It’s weird that this is something we got right up until the wars, presumably because the shopkeepers lived in the community they served themselves out of necessity?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    This is not exactly a 20 min neighbourhood (or new).

    Pre LTN too.

    Simple and effective road closure to prevent through traffic. Don’t know if it was ‘controversial’ at the time, but suspect less so than it would be now...

    Never a good ‘design’ for bikes or pedestrians and clearly not remodelled many years later!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    @mcairney, I don't think they are of the "cats, maybe cats operating in gangs" variety.

    More the "it's cool for cats" type. Possibly also the same kind of lingo that Beatniks of yore came out with, e.g. "Hey Daddy-O!", etc.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Perhaps the new localism will be dominated by delivery bikes with few food shops for people to visit?

    In logistics and delivery services, the last leg of the journey between retailers and consumers – the bit between local distribution hubs and your house – is the hardest to crack. By inserting themselves into this “last mile”, grocery delivery apps remove the need for trips to the corner shop. In doing so, they pose an existential threat to local high streets and small convenience stores.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/05/corner-shops-lockdown-delivery-apps-grocery-stores

    Posted 1 month ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    Is Portobelllo a 20 Minute Neighbourhood? It has all the right conditions to be able to live, work, shop and play locally - as encouraged by @SpokesPorty @EnergyPorty @justkenrick and @MaureenMChild1. Find out more in the @PortyPodcast

    https://twitter.com/scotdavidcalder/status/1411215564249436162

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    We do not lack public space.

    We lack imagination!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/fietsprofessor/status/1372186425756635138

    Video

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  14. Dave
    Member

    I think the writing's been on the wall for many years that a local shop selling generic products that could be supplied more cheaply by a 21st century internet business is basically doomed. It would be interesting to know whether people who get into the habit of a weekly bulk food drop are actually more likely to shop local between times.

    Instead of a local hardware store that sells screws & bulbs, imagine if it had a basic coffee machine, workbench & vice and done kind of tool library. I know it's quite different as a business model but that has real staying power I think.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    We rarely bulk buy as for us it can end in waste. We shop local, scotmid and markies and occasionalVegan meals from the Gousto box. More expensive per shop but less waste.

    Bill in the hardware shop is over 80 and still. Going. His rent must be crippling. Not sure what local shop would work? Balerno Scotmid has a vegan aisle now, I appear to be the only person down that aisle.

    Interestingly in London, many launderettes and I even saw a model boat and plane shop in Chattterton Village which is a street in Bromley. I have to guess He owns the premises. Or front for drugs.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  16. fimm
    Member

    I went to Wickes for some stuff.
    "Do you have a trolley?" asked the man on the checkout. "That's a 10 litre tub of paint..."
    No, I am not going to drive it home, I am going to carry it.
    (It was quite heavy and it did take me a while - but it was only 1km...)

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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