CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

‘15 minute city’ or ‘20-minute neighbourhood’?

(34 posts)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Discuss

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_minute_city

    https://www.eugene-or.gov/1216/What-is-a-20-Minute-Neighborhood

    Apparently one person (perhaps more??) in Transport Scotland is interested in the idea.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    20 minute Neighbourhoods are hip in CEC

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Evidence?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Morningsider
    Member

    With our current planning system, where developers hold the whip hand, there is no realistic prospect of 20 minute neighbourhoods becoming a reality, unless by accident - say a development is built right next to an existing established community.

    How would such neighbourhoods be made to happen? I simply cannot see a mechanism. If anyone thinks "oh, here he goes again with the negativity" remember that national planning policy has directed development to town centres since at least 1998. How many major out-of-town developments have been given the go-ahead in that time and what has happened to our town centres.

    Just like "town centre first", "20-minute neighbourhoods" is currently meaningless nonsense. It's not that they couldn't happen - but it would take meaningful local authority land acquisition, masterplanning, high density development, mixed-use developments and so on - plan driven development (based on community aspirations) rather than commercially driven development. None of which are a feature of the current planning and development system.

    Tell me I'm wrong!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    “Tell me I'm wrong!“

    Mostly not.

    Depends how much/timescale the ‘plan’ is for.

    Best option is likely to be small areas (like LTNs) that may or may not begin to join up, plus, in a few towns/cities, well thought out centres.

    Would need serious Gov intent (inc changes in planning laws) PLUS some serious money for LAs do some of the work required.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Gets mentioned in most meetings most days

    In some senses Balerno is a twenty minute community already

    But that does not stop cats parking on double yellow lines outside Scotmid despite there being a perfectly good car park twenty seconds away by foot from the shop. With their motors running.

    Or creating massive traffic on the arterial route

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    “Gets mentioned in most meetings most days“

    Now I understand your use of the word “hip”.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. mcairney
    Member

    @gembo those cats in Balerno must be pretty advanced!
    It’s weird that this is something we got right up until the wars, presumably because the shopkeepers lived in the community they served themselves out of necessity?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    This is not exactly a 20 min neighbourhood (or new).

    Pre LTN too.

    Simple and effective road closure to prevent through traffic. Don’t know if it was ‘controversial’ at the time, but suspect less so than it would be now...

    Never a good ‘design’ for bikes or pedestrians and clearly not remodelled many years later!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    @mcairney, I don't think they are of the "cats, maybe cats operating in gangs" variety.

    More the "it's cool for cats" type. Possibly also the same kind of lingo that Beatniks of yore came out with, e.g. "Hey Daddy-O!", etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Perhaps the new localism will be dominated by delivery bikes with few food shops for people to visit?

    In logistics and delivery services, the last leg of the journey between retailers and consumers – the bit between local distribution hubs and your house – is the hardest to crack. By inserting themselves into this “last mile”, grocery delivery apps remove the need for trips to the corner shop. In doing so, they pose an existential threat to local high streets and small convenience stores.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/05/corner-shops-lockdown-delivery-apps-grocery-stores

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    Is Portobelllo a 20 Minute Neighbourhood? It has all the right conditions to be able to live, work, shop and play locally - as encouraged by @SpokesPorty @EnergyPorty @justkenrick and @MaureenMChild1. Find out more in the @PortyPodcast

    https://twitter.com/scotdavidcalder/status/1411215564249436162

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    We do not lack public space.

    We lack imagination!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/fietsprofessor/status/1372186425756635138

    Video

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Dave
    Member

    I think the writing's been on the wall for many years that a local shop selling generic products that could be supplied more cheaply by a 21st century internet business is basically doomed. It would be interesting to know whether people who get into the habit of a weekly bulk food drop are actually more likely to shop local between times.

    Instead of a local hardware store that sells screws & bulbs, imagine if it had a basic coffee machine, workbench & vice and done kind of tool library. I know it's quite different as a business model but that has real staying power I think.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    We rarely bulk buy as for us it can end in waste. We shop local, scotmid and markies and occasionalVegan meals from the Gousto box. More expensive per shop but less waste.

    Bill in the hardware shop is over 80 and still. Going. His rent must be crippling. Not sure what local shop would work? Balerno Scotmid has a vegan aisle now, I appear to be the only person down that aisle.

    Interestingly in London, many launderettes and I even saw a model boat and plane shop in Chattterton Village which is a street in Bromley. I have to guess He owns the premises. Or front for drugs.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. fimm
    Member

    I went to Wickes for some stuff.
    "Do you have a trolley?" asked the man on the checkout. "That's a 10 litre tub of paint..."
    No, I am not going to drive it home, I am going to carry it.
    (It was quite heavy and it did take me a while - but it was only 1km...)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

  19. Yodhrin
    Member

    I really hope "north" means Muirhouse/Pilton/Drylaw and not the Trinity/Inverleith axis. Even putting aside the ethical argument for bringing improvements to more deprived areas first, the optics of focusing on "the posh bits" are terrible with the most charitable interpretation being them aiming for low-hanging fruit that doesn't require much effort/many changes so they can claim an easy/cheap success, and a more cynical mind might choose to believe(or at least, pretend to do so for the sake of their Evening News column/letter) the council don't give a hoot about you if you don't live in a nice leafy area.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    “I really hope "north" means Muirhouse/Pilton/Drylaw and not the Trinity/Inverleith axis”

    Agree.

    CEC does a vast of stuff commissions/writes a vast amount of reports, has meetings/consultations etc. etc.

    Too often resulting in less action than residents of Edinburgh might reasonably expect.


    Daisy Narayanan has agreed to attend future meeting to discuss 20-minute neighbourhood and what this means for Inverleith

    https://www.edinburghpartnership.scot/downloads/file/155/16-may-2022

    Posted 1 month ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

  22. chdot
    Admin

  23. chdot
    Admin

    Executive summary

    The Covid-19 pandemic has had an immediate, and likely a lasting effect, on how we use towns and cities to live, work and play in. 20 minute neighbourhoods are a concept of urban development that has ascended rapidly in the minds of policymakers, politicians and the general public across the world. The basic premise is a model of urban development that creates neighbourhoods where daily services can be accessed within a 20 minute walk. This briefing paper focuses on the role planning policy and practice and place-based partnerships can have in delivering the concept in Scotland. This report recommends a range of areas of planning policy, development management and public service delivery which could be adjusted to include interventions to support 20 minute neighbourhoods. The on-going planning reform in Scotland, including the implementation of the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019 through drafting of the National Planning Framework 4 (NPF4), secondary legislation and guidance, provides an excellent opportunity to do so.

    Whilst their definition is not universally agreed upon, the basic premise is a model of urban development that creates neighbourhoods where daily services can be accessed within a 20 minute walk. The aim of such neighbourhoods is to regenerate urban centres, enhance social cohesion, improving health outcomes and support the move towards carbon net-zero targets through reducing unsustainable travel.

    ..

    Transport
    A key policy tool in delivering 20 minute neighbourhoods is through better integrating transport and land use planning. The planning system has an important role to play in delivering active travel networks, reducing congestion and thereby creating liveable streets19. Despite a strong policy steer and a clear transport hierarchy prioritising active travel, uptake of active travel has stagnated in recent years in Scotland20 with car traffic has increasing. Transport is also the largest single contributor to Scotland’s carbon emissions with private cars accounting for 39% of overall transport emissions in 201821. Car-centric design can have implications on ease of access to employment, services and facilities, which are not always located a convenient walking, cycling or public transport distance from residential neighbourhoods. In addition, with priority given to vehicle movement and access, less attention has been paid to the place function of streets and human movement through them. This has resulted in, for example, narrow footpaths, inadequate street lighting and fragmented cycle lanes.

    https://www.rtpi.org.uk/media/8111/20-minute-neighbourhood-briefing-report-final.pdf

    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    The 20-minute neighbourhood is a catchy name for ‘walkable neighbourhoods’, a concept that’s become popular across the world from Melbourne to Paris and Portland. It’s an established principle of urban design and planning, which aims to make sure that people’s everyday needs are within easy safe walking distance of their homes: schools, shops, parks, good public transport and so on.

    https://www.rtpi.org.uk/blog/2021/january/20-minute-neighbourhoods-local-place-plans-new-tools-for-a-healthier-greener-scotland/

    “and so on”

    So that’s cycling then??

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. spytfyre
    Member

    Agenda 21 (2030). I live in Peach Trees, sorry that was the doorbell, oh hello Judge Dre....

    Posted 1 month ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    Once again CllrProf announces stuff on Twitter.

    Can’t believe officials or fellow Cllrs are entirely happy with this ‘method’.

    Some things seem like areas proposed for 20Min areas, all ‘wouldn’t it be nice if these were improved’. The last ones sounds particularly aspirational.

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1562159055635972097

    “I fundamentally believe that when public and active transport thrives in Edinburgh, our Capital will thrive too.

    Today the transport team submitted bids to develop the designs listed below - this is a huge effort

    Charlotte Sq
    St Andrew Sq
    Dalry town centre
    Portobello town centre
    Corstorphine Connections
    The Promenade and West Shore Road
    Forthquarter Park - Old Town Streets
    Barnton Junction and Whitehouse Rd link to NCN1
    Niddrie Mains Road and High Street
    North Bridge trial
    Lothian Road
    Waterfront Park / Waterfront Avenue
    Waterfront Broadway Active Travel Improvements
    Craigleith Green Blue Neighbourhood

    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    We want to change our policy to require all development (including change of use) to include green and blue infrastructure

    https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/27739/craigleith-blackhall-community-council

    No idea….

    Posted 1 month ago #
  28. Tulyar
    Member

    Edinburgh Old Town grew as a city that worked for transport on foot, although this feature has been eroded over several centuries, it still lingers on for those with some knowledge of the remaining (and still connected) wynds and vennels, and a study of the royal mile will show the residual detail of a close every 30 metres, which in turn connected frequently on the East-West axis

    The New Town was laid out for carriages, with service lanes at the rear for deliveries, and wide boulevards at the front that wouldn't get clogged by delivery vehicles unloading (hint?)

    We now have residential and other developments with even larger blocks which only work if you drive between addresses...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  29. neddie
    Member

    "green and blue infrastructure"

    Are they talking about Hydrogen? Because if so, they've been misled into believing that Hydrogen (except special niche cases) is anything more than propping up the fossil fuel industry.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    No, I think they mean parks and ponds.

    Craigleith Quarry might have made a nice pond, but they built a shopping centre instead.

    Posted 1 month ago #

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