CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Borders railway fail

(23 posts)

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    We had hoped to spend the long weekend in the Borders, but couldn't find any accommodation.

    So we made it a day trip.

    We had tickets booked for the Trimontium museum and guided walk to the fort, plus plans to visit Melrose Abbey.

    We foolishly thought it would be fun to take the Borders railway instead of a hire car.

    This involved getting kids out of the house earlier than on a school day, and a flying visit to the farmers market by MrSRD at 7am (by prior arrangement with stallholder).

    Got to waverley in plenty of time to negotiate lifts and stake a claim on the bike spaces.

    8.24 cancelled - lack of staff
    9.24 platform announced; train arrives; we negotiate places with an older touring couple who hadn't done much train/bike stuff and who had also been intending to travel on the 8.24. Their bikes go in one space; ours go racks in front carriage.

    Another sporty couple arrives and puts their bikes also in our carriage. Guard gives us all a lecture that we'll have to de-train if a wheelchair boards.

    9.24 comes and goes, but our train does not.

    Finally announced that it too has been cancelled because of a fault, and we can try our luck on the 10.24

    At which point we head home, via the donut shop.

    This sums up everything wrong with bikes and trains.

    On the weekend, why don't they run a bike carriage?

    Not to mention trains?

    Good luck to anyone else who was planning to travel.

    I guess next time we'll hire a car.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. gembo
    Member

    @srd that is rubbish. We cycled down but was quite a slog for me, EEN lurgied for a few weeks. At the Heriot turn coming up the granites I contemplated going to stow and catching g the train, such was the slog. glad I didn’t

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. nobrakes
    Member

    Your experience nails exactly why I never used the train to commute to Edinburgh when I still worked there, despite being 5 minutes from Stow station.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    @nobrakes if i was commuting, I'd have my folder and no family, so easier logistics.

    but two cancelled trains in a row a bit much.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. Morningsider
    Member

    @SRD - that stinks! A stark example of how the Scottish Government's warm words on integrated and sustainable travel crumble at the slightest contact with reality.

    A bit of boring background for you.

    Adding a carriage: The types of train used to provide the majority of services in Scotland don't use "carriages" in the traditional sense. They are fixed units made up of 2, 3 or more cars. Two or more of these fixed units can, if compatible, be joined together to make a longer train. The length is really limited by platform length. There is little slack in the system, meaning there aren't really many spare units sitting around. There are no bike cars (excepting three refurbished single car units being added on the existing West highland line rolling stock). They don't make sense in the current privatised rail system - as you would be running a big chunk of a train which could never make any money, as bikes are carried for free.

    The Borders Railway: The specification for the Borders Railway was pared back to the bone, as a cost saving measure. This means, again, there is no slack - the most minor fault on track or train will lead to the collapse of service on the line. This was clear well before the final design was agreed - for the sake of probably less than £100m (buttons in transport project terms) any resilience was designed out. No such value engineering seems to apply to road schemes of a similar scale.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. Rosie
    Member

    @SRD - that so crappy on a gorgeous autumn day, perfect for the Borders. I haven't tried the Borders rail as yet though as I'm not a family of four I suppose I'll have better luck.

    @Morningsider - useful points. I've not had a train rejection as yet, but give it time, give it time. Putting a bicycle on a train is one of my favourite things, but they don't make it easy.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    @SRD, make sure you apply for a refund - your journey was delayed by over an hour so you are entitled to one.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  8. Morningsider
    Member

    @SRD - good call from crowriver. Details on how to claim here:

    https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-delay-repay-guarantee

    Make sure you claim for a two hour delay, that way you get the full return ticket price back.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  9. ejstubbs
    Member

    @SRD, make sure you apply for a refund: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-delay-repay-guarantee

    I've never tried claiming when the possibility of completing the journey has been so delayed that I gave up on the trip altogether, but I assume it should be allowed. If you bought returns then the two hour delay should mean that you get the full cost of the returns refunded, according to what I can see on that web page.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    I have caught trains to stow and once back from Gala due to building works closing the coach road north, either Cundy or Rail bridge. Quite a steep hill out of Stow to Gala.

    They have all worked fine every time. Though has always been weekdays and also pre pandemic.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    Hi all - yes we applied for refunds right away.

    I take all your points Morningsider, except the ‘bikes don’t make them money’. If they used a unit with reasonable bike space on weekends and advertised it, I think people would take trains who wouldn’t otherwise. Instead they say “the borders railway gives cyclists access to the borders” when they actually don’t.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  12. Rosie
    Member

    There are Borders Buses that take bikes, though I've heard that it's a bit random and hard to plan a journey.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  13. gembo
    Member

    We saw two buses very close together at Cadrona in the borders. x62. Both with bike spaces.today.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    Sorry guys not putting my kids on busses to the borders. they can't get across town without feeling sick.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    “If they used a unit with reasonable bike space on weekends and advertised it, I think people would take trains who wouldn’t otherwise.“

    Yep.

    Especially in these days with couples with one or more electric bikes.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    No idea what is planned on that line for the ‘all electric railway’.

    Presume not full electrification unless there is a ‘plan’ to reopen the line to Carlisle (and transfer money from roads…)

    So, batteries, hydrogen? Then new or at least modified rolling stock (and some opportunities for major rethinks).

    Or?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  17. Morningsider
    Member

    @SRD and chdot - I agree that Borders railway rolling stock should have a good bit of bike space and that it would be popular. That's not how the railway see it though, for two main reasons:

    1. Commercial, bikes take up space that could be used by paying passengers. If these spaces sit empty during the week then that is a potential drain on finances - as rolling stock leasing charges still have to be paid. I can't see any rail company having weekend-only rolling stock, again due to leasing charges.

    2. Loading: Bikes take longer to get on and off than foot passengers, which can mean longer station dwell times - which means it is harder to keep to timetable. Rail companies would love not to carry bikes (probably happy to do away with passengers if they could - as they get in the way of running an efficient service).

    Posted 3 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    That's where the netzero/sustainabletransport/etc policies should come into play.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    One of the buses I spotted at our coffee stop was absolutely rammed. Full.

    The Edinburgh Airdrie Glasgow rolling stock has lots of room usually. Bikes go where people can stand and maybe some foldy up seats. Which are ok if you embark at a terminus as you get on first. Wouldn’t like to ask the bears to shift if already occupying the seats but guess you could wait until the guard did that. Lots of room near the doors too. This is a less scenic part of Scotland of course but good cycle paths.

    Linlithgow you have probably done? Take train outand cycle back on towpath. Nice. I would not assume getting a bike on a train at Linlithgow though. Have seen plenty told to wait for next train.

    Aside from the issue of lifting a heavy bike the azuma rolling stock to Berwick upon tweed is very good. Bookable and tix as low as £6. Though time dependent probably. The cycle back though is quite arduous. Though you could easily book a return way in advance and cycle from Berwick to Lindisfarne. This would be a grand day out but your issue here would be tidal.

    You could cycle in other parts of Northumberland. Bamburgh is beautiful but that would be longer cycling. The roads are quiet away from the A1.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  20. crowriver
    Member

    @SRD, ah yes Net Zero.

    I wonder what the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero (and Energy, and Transport) has to say? What's the government vision for how to achieve Scotland's "world leading" climate targets?

    ---

    Michael Matheson MSP @MathesonMichael
    ·
    Sep 15
    As part of the COP26 Call to Action, I’m pledging to reduce waste by avoiding single-use plastics, reducing and recycling food waste and sharing surplus useable goods through community or charity initiatives. #ScotClimateWeek #COP26 #LetsDoNetZero

    https://twitter.com/MathesonMichael/status/1438049470759981060

    ---

    So, that commitment in full - re-announce existing, long-standing policies which just fiddle around the edges of the crisis. There will probably be an exciting announcement about subsidies for electric car charging points soon too.

    Okay everyone, as you were, let's get back to Business As Usual, nothing to see or worry about here...

    Posted 3 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    @ Morningsider, yes to all that - which is why SG need to change things (yes I know, generally don’t know/care).

    SR is about to be ‘nationalised’. BUT will that mean any chance of changing the stock leasing system?

    Scotland used to have a significant rail manufacturing industry.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    Elsewhere

    https://twitter.com/honorelliott_/status/1439527283736383490

    Posted 3 years ago #

  23. LaidBack
    Member

    Sorry to hear that 'rule 2' awful story @SRD - did see on Twitter.

    Just fitted replacement rear wheel to a customer's 2014 Helios tandem going through Edinburgh with his partner heading back to Connel Ferry. (Planned stop due to broken hub flange since you ask)

    Thye are booked to join the ScotRail Oban activity coach train tomorrow at Dalmuir.

    Told me that it's often empty as booking is extremely difficult - not accessible easily or at all online. He had to make a phone call or two. Obviously as they live close to the railway they want to see it succeed.

    Going to get more info on how they both get on.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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