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How to get more people cycling in 2023(?)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    I’m sure ‘we’ would like this to happen.

    There’s some concern that one consequence of Covid is more WFH - at least with some sections of the population. So less ‘cycling visibility’ and quite probably less ‘ordinary cyclist’ mileage.

    So even more of the ‘waste of money on cycle lanes that no one uses’ toxic nonsense.

    Cllr SA is still promising ambitions -

    “

    Today marks one month until I publish Edinburgh's draft Active Travel Action Plan.

    I expect this to be the biggest and boldest in Scotland, and will transform many communities.

    “

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1607662573771522048

    But of course -

    “

    This will be a step-change in investment over a ten year period and will rely on external funding.

    “

    AND

    “

    The list of schemes being proposed will be selected from a larger pool estimated as being worth over £1b, with only the schemes offering the very best value being progressed.

    “

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1607676163438137344

    Good luck with all that. We’ve already waited 10 years for a lot of stuff…

    2022 saw a significant increase in school bike buses - still penny numbers from a tiny base.

    Also https://www.infrasisters.org.uk gained momentum.

    Great initiatives.

    More to come? More of similar? Incremental add-ons or something more?

    I have no answers/suggestions about how to fill gaps between micro initiatives, often dependant on volunteers, like https://www.bikesforrefugees.scot/news-blog-1/leith-market-popup-fhsjt-azzj3 and understandable calls for a Scottish equivalent of Active Travel England.

    https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/1609855987753664513

    Clearly the Spokes model of dedicated volunteers and no staff has worked wonders. Other organisations (not just cycling, not just Edinburgh) have achieved things with a ‘structure’ and staff - but many become more concerned with sustaining themselves!

    Things like buddy schemes don’t seem to have worked well. Led rides have been better, but it’s harder to attract non/very new bike riders.

    So

    Individually ride more, and encourage others?

    Presume a decent hire scheme would help(?)

    Get involved in something existing?

    Get active on Twitter?

    Get off Twitter?

    Lobby, Cllrs other politicians?

    Fill in MORE consultations??

    Float some ideas and see if anyone else is interested (that’s basically how PoP started)?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  2. Morningsider
    Member

    The development of cycle friendly cities relies on three key things:

    1. Policy.
    2. Funds.
    3. Political will.

    Local and national policy are highly supportive of cycling. We now have Dutch levels of funding available across Scotland. The obvious missing component is political will - the drive to turn policy and cash into a continuous network of high quality, on-street segregated cycle lanes. The conviction to either confront or ignore the nay-sayers. The character to to do this again and again for the good of the city, rather than pander to ignorance for tawdry, illusory political advantage.

    The political make-up of the Council should be the most cycle friendly ever, but due to the post-election political shenanigans we have ended up with a transport convener of uncertain conviction and a penchant for political game playing.

    I know its a bore, but I think we need to keep cheering those councillors who strongly support cycling, stiffen the resolve of possible waverers and take-on those who argue against action. Fill in those consultations, email those councillors and make your voice heard where it makes the most difference.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  3. jss
    Member

    Think you are missing factor number 4 -
    Dead flat terrain
    All Dutch cities,Copenhagen ,Cologne in Germany where I have witnessed mass cycling
    lack any inclines. Maybe this is the cause of great infrastructure being implemented.
    Thousands of cyclists predating modern infrastructure and force of numbers creating it rather than the other way round.
    Hilly cities have this inconvenient disincentive for cycling built in to their topography

    Posted 1 year ago #

  4. Yodhrin
    Member

    Not really a factor jss. Firstly, there *are* Dutch cities that aren't flat, and there doesn't appear to be any difference between the rate at which they progressed from being motor-obsessed in the mid 20'th like every other country compared to the cities and towns that were flat. Secondly, it's not as if a lack of hills means cycling in the Netherlands is effort-free, there are plenty of places and times of year where the wind will get up high enough that at least one half of your journey will feel like you're cycling up Dublin Street the whole way. Thirdly ebikes make effort-based impediments to cycling much less relevant, yet wealthier people here who could easily afford them tend to have more cars not less, because the infrastructure(and disincentivising motor traffic) has to come first regardless.

    If there's any connection between lack of hills and cycling, I'd wager it's simply that being flat robs bleating coward politicians of one of their excuses for inaction. As far as I can tell the only real difference between the Netherlands and everywhere else - which also had large numbers of people cycling prior to the postwar car boom, it was how huge numbers of working class people got to work and how lots of kids got to school - is that they decided they weren't going to accept fuel insecurity, continued decline of cycling numbers, and rising traffic fatalities while the rest of us decided it was easier to just ignore the problem. Whether individual other cities and regions later followed their example seems entirely down to the quality and ambition of their local politicians.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    Interesting given the history of Royal Dutch Petroleum that the Netherlands has managed to buck the obsession with motor cars.that the rest of the world has fallen for.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  6. neddie
    Member

    The Dutch are also known for their pragmatism:

    <best Dutch accent>

    "Ah, well, this is broken, so we will fix it!"

    "You need to get to the shops on a bicycle? Make it so..."

    Posted 1 year ago #

  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    <best Dutch accent>

    "You nid to gate to the shohpsh on a bishycle? Mek it sho..."

    Feels a bit Fast Show to me. :) I imagine a softer voiced Sean Connery doing a Russian accent, but somehow that doesn't quite work.

    Less facetiously, I think about my parents' generation and why few of them cycle now. Many used to. Many could afford e-bikes now if they wanted, but they've been using cars, and perhaps buses, for too long to feel comfortable going back to cycling, with excuse after excuse. And the exertion is both imaginary and real: the memories of hauling a metric tonne of Sturmey Archered Raleigh Twenty up from Stockbridge to KB every day are impossible to disentangle from how bikes might be nowadays: fitness back in one's 20s doesn't compare with fitness in one's 70s or 80s, even though electric can be a good equaliser, and time something of an equaliser with the cost of electric.

    Morningsider's point about national and local governance making the conditions right for cycling is true: so much of the antipathy towards cycling boils down to that, but in practice it is far more carrot than stick. Good governance and political will doesn't make better bikes more affordable – although it could; and it doesn't make bad drivers go away – although it could. It doesn't however make distance and hills and bad weather go away, except that better bikes can help distance and hills go away, and better bikes and better clothing make bad weather tolerable, if not necessarily safe – because if paths aren't maintained to keep them safe, that comes back to weak governance.

    When we talk about why people do what they do, and what needs to happen in order for them to change their behaviour, there are three value systems at play:

    • what's in it for them, personally?
    • what influence and what social norms exist within their immediate and wider circles; and
    • what materially affects their ability to act a certain way?

    Only when all three of these are considered together in a formal and structured way can we (the Royal We) define any reasonable mitigations and improvements. It is a lot of work to do this fully. A lot of mitigations cost us money, or votes, or both. As I've said elsewhere before, if all governance achieves is soft measures, like asking people to be nice, and continual exhortation to log bicycle journeys to possibly win a minor prize at some hypothetical later stage, although I doubt it, then people have little incentive to change if what's in it for them and what's in it for their friends, lies elsewhere in a land that is arranged to make it easier to do something else – like parking a car right outside a destination.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    “there are three value systems at play:

    • 1 what's in it for them, personally?
    • 2 what influence and what social norms exist within their immediate and wider circles; and
    • 3 what materially affects their ability to act a certain way?
      • ”

    That’s a useful list

    Subjective and not comprehensive but worth thinking of some answers.

    Numbered for (my) convenience.

    Q1 - fitness, fun, convenience, money saving etc

    BUT ‘we’ know all that. Some here have ‘converted’ from a car based lifestyle. Most still have/use cars.

    SO part of the problem is people wilfully (or stupidly) believing/pretending it’s binary - car OR bike.

    It’s one level below ‘think about the disabled’.

    Q2 is really important on various levels. My friends and family definitely have more bikes than cars so I’m an outlier… That said, I think pressure from people we encounter that cycling is ‘stupid’ (etc) is MUCH less than it once was.

    Undoubtedly there are pressures to conform (in many areas). One factor is advertising. Presumably car companies know that ads of carless open roads is absurd, but they must have done the research(?)

    Q3 is an interesting one to examine. Presumably it’s (partly) about the ‘poorer people can’t afford bikes’.

    Can’t afford heat or food either these days so any extra/new expenditure is difficult to contemplate, especially if the benefits/savings are difficult to quantify.

    Really poor people don’t have cars, but plenty of people ‘need’ a car or *need* a car. The reasons being many and various - distance between home and job, shifts/unsocial hours, no available/affordable PT.

    ALL due to the way society is structured/planned.

    MUCH more could be done - even in a ‘more of the same’ political landscape.

    In a Climate Emergency/difficulty environment, making things WORSE by doing (next to) nothing is scandalous.

    Not acting for fear of upsetting the privileged and entitled is pathetic.

    And normal.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. jss
    Member

    @morningsider & yodhrin
    I believe there are a few southern Dutch cities with inclines steeper and longer than a speed bump and I am sure they have more cycling than we do but nothing like their flatter brethren urban areas
    Yes they do have wind in Holland but we are blest with both wind and hill!
    I think less sweat is produced going against the wind than ascending a long hill- it certainly doesn’t deter the intrepid Dutch mounted bolt upright on their 25 kg steeds I suppose weight is not that relevant with wind. These bikes are so ideal for that sort of city cycling - you can wear normal clothes , coats ,scarves,long skirts sans problems ,but try getting one of those 3 gear 25 kg steel roadsters up the mound.
    Incidentally Holland is the birthplace of most European recumbents because of the inherent aerodynamic advantage with the recumbent weakness in climbing irrelevant.
    Never seen a recumbent in their cities- not suited and no advantage.
    I think the electric bike alternative is flawed for many
    The high cost, need to remove battery for recharging after each ride,and prone to having your £300 battery prised off when parked
    All this being said no efforts should be spared to get more infrastructure and persuasion to increase cycling here despite our lumps
    Cycling through Cologne I was surprised to see so many matronly 60 and 70 year old Fraus rigidly erect on sturdy roadsters and how forceful ,almost aggressive, they were - expecting other cyclists to give way
    Refreshing to witness that “I’m coming through” confidence from older cyclists
    Hardly a helmet in sight either ,just as well as the storm trooper image might have become more vivid
    Hope the topographical purgatory of Edinburgh can become a cycling Nirvana without it being it flattened
    Removing the crap,,sunken drains and pot holes from the cycle lanes already created would be a great start- and why not resurface just the cycle lanes and leave the potholed roads to deteriorate further - it’s what 4 WDs were designed for!

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. LaidBack
    Member

    Late to this debate but many good points.

    Never seen a recumbent in their cities- not suited and no advantage.

    Will post a picture of a Ligfietswinkel Ligfietsdag Tour. Used to have 30 at a time with Amsterdam Reporter along! Way back in 2007 tho'! :-)

    Cycling through Cologne I was surprised to see so many matronly 60 and 70 year old Fraus rigidly erect on sturdy roadsters and how forceful ,almost aggressive, they were - expecting other cyclists to give way...

    Especially a man on a 'Liegerad'! ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. jss
    Member

    A prone Englishman abroad is always vulnerable

    Posted 1 year ago #

  12. nobrakes
    Member

    I think one of the best ways is to ignore the commuting angle and get folk to rediscover the joy of being out on the open road at the weekend with the wind in your face. It’s the thing I look forward to most during the week.

    If people can’t enjoy riding for pleasure, I think commuting / utility riding is a very hard sell.

    If you love riding for pleasure, you naturally start using the bike for day to day stuff.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  13. nobrakes
    Member

    Stow recently opened a community bike hub where you can rent e-bikes. It’s amazing the number of people who haven’t been on a bike in years now venturing up the old coach road for a couple of hours’ fun.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  14. LaidBack
    Member

    @nobrakes - great initiative. Stow has ideal road close to station parallel to A7 up towards Heriot. Potential to do a loop over to Lauder too on full battery.

    @jss - :-) knew you would say something like that! You are right though that in NL bike and use is best done on an upright. That said most recumbent bikes we sold from Nazca had kickstand, rack, guards etc. Market there is/was inter-city - some recumbents being displaced by velomobiles.
    Hart's Gazelle range is one key way of making day to day cycling clean and convenient. Now e-Gazelles are a thing even more people should enjoy them but lack of infra limits growth. Same goes for cargobikes such as UA.
    We get the 'brief' of why people want a bike and where they might go. Almost all buyers have a decent path close by. Few live in city centre.
    Storage there is issue though big cargo bike and cover is pretty safe. Yes you have to take battery off but you'll do that to charge anyway. Different routine versus hassle of getting bus or parking your car.

    Number one measure I would say is to get bike hire scheme back in action. A city without that really doesn't produce enough 'non-cyclists' on bikes versus hard core 'sports-commuters' to encourage les autres.

    Paths and routes with decent width is next. Discouraging cross town car journeys would free up centre for more people space and much of the complex pavement and kerb engineering wouldn't be needed. As North Bridge is restricted now is the time to do that. If the city actually applied the hierarchy of human beings first then the rest would follow.

    If more media was like Phylis and Edinburgh Reporter and positive towards cycling it would help. Car retailers dictate too much I fear making cycling very much a niche with 'risks and discomfort' of being outside a vehicle a common theme.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    The old coach road is a great road now The Cundy has been installed at the Farm.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  16. jss
    Member

    Would be great if Stow becsme another cycling hub like Innerleithen creating and supporting local businesses
    Perhaps also the borders railway would wake up to the potential afforded by edinburgh cyclists wanting to get to the wonderful cycling in the borders and offer more than just a couple of bike spaces

    Posted 1 year ago #

  17. Arellcat
    Moderator

    If I were in charge of Transport Scotland and had the wherewithal to spend a couple of billion Pounds, I would rebuild the railway from Galashiels to Peebles, run it north as far as Eddleston and then west via Lamancha to West Linton, using some of the existing Dolphinton branch wayleave. From there, we drive a tunnel under the Pentlands to meet the WCML at a new Curriehill West Junction.

    Another two or three billion and we could rebuild the railway from Berwick to Galashiels via Kelso, and for an encore complete the Borders railway to Carlisle for full diversionary capability.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  18. jss
    Member

    You would get my vote to run it!
    Especially if it were to use steam locomotives perhaps fuelled by sustainable timber from the Border’s forests

    Posted 1 year ago #

  19. nobrakes
    Member

    Jss - it’s a small place but it’s doing good work. If you stop at the Cloudhouse cafe, there’s now a permanent bike wrenching unit sticking out of the pavement across the road, with various common tools available for free use (attached with cables to discourage thieves).

    Posted 1 year ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    “

    I really miss my Bathgate-Edinburgh cycle commute, even in the crappy weather. It gave me purpose glong A to B and never thought twice about it, even in winter. I just can't get motivated to replace that with 'leisure miles' now that I mainly WFH

    “

    https://mobile.twitter.com/thebroonster/status/1611758958812827648

    Posted 1 year ago #

  21. jss
    Member

    WTF is WFH?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  22. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It's just YATLA. ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  23. fimm
    Member

    Working From Home.

    And I like Yet Another Three Letter Acronym (which I had not seen before).

    Posted 1 year ago #

  24. ejstubbs
    Member

    @jss: need to remove battery for recharging after each ride

    I don't need to remove the battery from my bike to recharge it - there's a port with a rubber cap in the frame which covers a socket that you can plug the charger in to with the battery still on the bike. I needed to get a longer mains lead than the one supplied as standard to reach from the nearest 240V socket to where I store my bike, but that was a relatively minor one-off cost. I doubt my e-bike is unique in this respect, though I'm in no position to claim that they are all like that.

    I also don't need to recharge the battery after each ride. If I've only used it for shortish local journeys (one of the key targets for getting other people out their cars, surely?) then it can go days without needing a recharge. If I go for a longer ride and come back with it ~half empty I still usually don't put it on charge straight away: the usual recommendation being to store the battery at around 60-70% charged, rather than topping it up every time you get home. That remaining partial charge is plenty for nipping to the shops a few times. Obviously running the battery down requires a bit of forethought and planning to accommodate longer rides, but with a fast charger (which I personally haven't found any need for yet) it doesn't take long to top it up if you get a sudden desire to head out into the wild blue yonder.

    prone to having your £300 battery prised off when parked

    Is this particularly prevalent? I can imagine that it could happen, but I've not [yet] heard of it becoming a scourge of e-bikers. If I'm just popping in to a shop for a few minutes (short local journeys again) then I don't worry much about leaving the battery on the bike. If I'm planning to leave it parked for some time e.g. at work if commuting then I can take the battery with me (and I can then e.g. charge it in the office should it need it). I also rather wonder how much a collection of used, unmarked LIon cells would be worth to a thief? I doubt the battery package would emerge unscathed from being prised off/out of the frame (though I'll allow that the ones that mount to a rear carrier rack would likely be more vulnerable to minimal-damage theft).

    When I park up my bike it takes me a wee while to remove all the accessories which could be quickly and easily stolen (lights, Garmin, camera etc) and stash them in my rucksack, and then fit them back on the bike when I'm ready to start riding again. Although a battery is a heavy thing to lug around if you do choose to take it off, the additional time required to detach and attach it is IME not a major factor in the overall parking up/getting ready to ride process. (I guess that's where the Van Moof/hire bike approach, where a lot of the accessory type stuff is integrated into the bike, has some appeal.)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  25. LaidBack
    Member

    @ejstubbs @jss need to remove battery for recharging after each ride

    All models we sell can be charged in situ but for outdoor storage overnight best to bring inside. Urban Arrow users seem to charge every two or three days. Heavier bike etc.

    @ejstubbs
    also rather wonder how much a collection of used, unmarked LIon cells would be worth to a thief?

    Two UA owners have had Bosch powerpacks stolen in last year. Thiefs destroy the lock but battery is unscathed.
    Bosch pack fits many other bikes and details at £600 so is worth going for. As cycling isn't too popular here there's less chance. In Amsterdam they fit extra 'ridesafe' locks to go over the standard lock!

    Agree though that using e-bike is not difficult once you get routine sorted. Running lights off battery is pretty standard on our cargo models. I prefer the control to be wired onto bars so frame lock key is all you need to take for short stop.
    Some models now have tiny removable 'Kiox' display that is just more to carry or waylay.
    Fitting a frame lock would make bike use easier. Rarely offered by non-European brands.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  26. gembo
    Member

    In general a battery will take approx 1000 recharges if kept in not too cold and I suppose not too hot conditions. Sometimes can be repaired but after about 1000 recharges they are kaput.

    If it is twice a week then about 9-10 years.

    Though we trashed the earlier model batteries a lot quicker than that. In the work scheme.

    The internal wiring also went so you needed your own lights

    We also tended to use full power at all times…

    The shop went bust at tollcross, and even the battery shop on ferry road closed.

    However,I still love using them. And am still on the case despite being described as Just an interested user ( as in no one in the company taking ownership so i interfere). Three better ones were found during Covid and were apparently set for return to the main office but are still in limbo.

    I am asking about this with frequency as I think they are useful for my peripatetic work

    Posted 1 year ago #

  27. pringlis
    Member

    Battery charging is more of a hassle for people who can't store their bike indoors or near a socket (e.g. tenement flats). It'd be great if the newly installed on-street bike hangers could come with charging facilities. I don't think it's possible at the moment due to size of panels needed but at some point efficiency would be such that you could even have solar panels on the roof trickle charging bikes. Or on-street chargers, like the council is building for electric cars.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  28. Rosie
    Member

    SPOKES Facebook post
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid022bh7gDatsTs986bwXa3u9D4H3qwNPwCNgdwe5b9wY2ZCPyLWk5U9xYmMVt6Hkobzl&id=100064719934884

    CYCLING LEGACY – ANGUS ROBERTSON

    Angus Robertson, the Culture Secretary and the Constituency MSP for Edinburgh Central, intends that the UCI Cycling World Championship, which is to be hosted in Glasgow in the summer, will leave a lasting cycling legacy.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/.../msp-vows-cycling-event...

    "Through our £1 million Community Cycling Fund, we are already supporting sustainable cycling projects and local events to ensure as many communities across Scotland get involved.

    "We want to inspire a new generation to cycle, helping more people to benefit from the mental and physical health benefits, as well as promoting active travel and helping reduce travel emissions."

    No-one wants to be a grinch about holding an international sports event in Scotland, with local cycling events as part of the celebrations. However, if, for instance, they put on a BMX competition/try-out for children, whether it will result in more children cycling to school daily is another story. This will not happen without the necessary measures to keep them safe from motor traffic. If you want inspiration for an activity to continue beyond a big event, you need the infrastructure to sustain the activity. A parallel case would be to inspire children to read more through a festival of books featuring famous children’s authors, then not opening libraries.

    What could the Scottish government do if it is serious about turning inspiration generated from a major sport event into more people cycling as an ordinary means of getting about in the future?

    Spokes has detailed the Scottish government’s present active travel trajectory here (bottom of the article).
    http://www.spokes.org.uk/.../edinburgh-cycling-what-will.../

    Effective Budgeting

    They could budget more effectively. The SNP/Green joint Share Policy Programme promised that by 2024-25 at least £320m or 10% of the total transport budget will be allocated to active travel.

    For 23/24 the Active Travel budget was 5.3% of the total transport budget. If you are going to increase funding for active travel, you need to allocate evenly over the time period, which gives Councils the ability to plan the projects, and hire and upskill the staff. A big lump of cash at the end may leave the Council without the manpower and projects to use it wisely.

    The Scottish Government has recognised this with its Active Travel Transformation Project, which is to outline how to reorganise processes for the effective use of cash. It is supposed to be completed with a report to the Minister for Active Travel in December 2022. As always, it is a question how much the good-sounding policies will be implemented.

    Easing Council Restrictions

    Councils deliver the work on the ground. Many existing government policies restrict their ability to act rapidly and effectively to promote cycling and wider active and sustainable travel. In their Transformation initiative the councils have been asked to identify such restrictions.

    There are some ideas:- allowing bus ANPR cameras to issue automatic fines for parking in bus lanes; allowing councils to increase fines for parking infringements; further changes to the rules on Traffic Orders, to make project implementations easier (like in England); speeding up implementation of the act to ban pavement parking, (which has been delayed until 2024 when the Act was passed in 2019!) drop-kerb parking and double parking.

    The above procedures are unglamorous measures compared to an Olympics-style sporting championship along with attendant local community events, which politicians can turn up to and support. However, if Angus Robertson is serious that these have the goal of getting more people cycling in Scotland, there has to be more than the vision of the trophy – there is the whole painstaking training programme that leads up to it.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  29. jss
    Member

    Anyone ever seen Angus Robertson on a bicycle ?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  30. gembo
    Member

    The civil servant who wrote thar for angus Robertson must hav3 a strong stomach. I would think Angus has no interest in this sort of thing and merely signed the bottom of the page without reading it,

    Posted 1 year ago #

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