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Floating Bus Stops

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  1. bakky
    Member

    This from Living Streets Edinburgh's recent email missive on Leith Connections consultation (emphasis mine):

    The Council has recently launched a consultation on some big changes planned for Leith, from Lindsay Road in the west through Commercial Street and Bernard Street to Salamander Street in the east.

    The key feature is a cycleway (continuous, except in narrow Bernard Street) and various associated changes to pavements, junctions, bus facilities and parking. There appear to be some significant improvements for pedestrians - such as ‘continuous footways’ over side road junctions, and a single-stage crossing over North Junction Street at the Ocean Drive junction.

    However, it is also very disappointing to see many pavements less than 2 metres wide - the “absolute minimum” that the Council normally considers acceptable. There seem to be ten ‘floating bus stops’ (which mean people getting on and off the bus have to cross a cycle lane); we know this is a serious concern to many disabled and blind people. The plan would also remove significant sections of bus lane on Lindsay Road and Commercial Street. Many of these changes are not highlighted on the Council’s consultation.

    Unfortunately these kind of problems seem to feature in most big active travel schemes promoted by the Council, despite our repeated efforts to ensure that schemes put ‘walking and wheeling’ first - in line with Council policy. We have asked the Council for more detailed information on the narrow footways and bus stop designs (which isn’t shown on all the drawings) and are waiting for a response.

    Please have a look and give your views by 17 November: https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/leithconnections/ There is also a drop-in event in the Kirkgate on 29 October (see website for details). And do let us know your thoughts too, so that we can take account of them in our own response!

    I believe the 'parent' Living Streets org's report on Floating Bus Stops doesn't simplify this down to 'these are bad':

    However, whilst there is some concern about bus stop bypasses, our observational data suggested the level of discomfort or difficulty most people experience in using these bus stops, when well designed, is very low. Where a cycle track is extremely busy – a much wider group of pedestrians can be disadvantaged, unless reliable support is provided to allow easier crossing. There are also examples of poor design.

    They go on to say:

    If levels of cycling are to be significantly increased, and this is to become an ordinary, inclusive means of transport, then entirely ruling out the use of bus stop bypasses is not a viable option. This would mean significant gaps in cycle tracks with cyclists returned to the carriageway, which is already understood to create risk or fear for cyclists.

    (Above from report Inclusive Design at bus stops with cycle tracks).

    My own experience of riding through these is that by and large they're conflict-free once 'bedded in' with the local community - even on poor implementations like Leith Walk. I find it really frustrating that Mr. Hunter has decided LSE's position on this is so lacking in nuance.

    Not sure what the take-away would be. Make a special effort to commend the inclusion of floating stops when responding to consultations?

    Apologies for my usual struggles with brevity.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. Morningsider
    Member

    LSE seem to take a consistently anti-cycling stance, unlike every cycling group I am aware of - which all support a better pedestrian environment.

    I can't help but conclude these arguments are being made in bad faith (while acknowledging that poorly designed bus stop bypasses are bad for everyone). These arguments were made to good effect in the campaign to get the Forrest Road/George IV Bridge spaces for people lanes removed. Yet as soon as that was done, no-one seemed to care that the pedestrian environment remained terrible for disabled people.

    I suppose all we can do in any consultation response is point to relevant research findings that bus stop bypasses are safe, and also highlight personal experience from elsewhere in Edinburgh where these operate without incident.

    It is very boring to have to make the same arguments again and again, but that just seems to be our lot.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    Mr Hunter’s opinions will dominate LSE, regardless of the wider LS view.

    One of the good things about this forum is the Plurality.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. Yodhrin
    Member

    I genuinely don't get why the national org let this bloke stomp about using their brand to add weight to his own personal opinions when those opinions are so contrary to their own findings and general attitude. I was surprised how even handed their report on the matter was largely because LSE had given me the impression the org was institutionally anti-cycling, and I can't be the only one to form a low opinion of them in general based on LSE in particular.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. bakky
    Member

    Yes - I found the same when engaging with their output. He’s recently started following edi.bike assumedly to keep an eye after the Spurtle quoted me ranting away about him ;)

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. neddie
    Member

    What LSE / Mr Hunter forget is that pedestrians already have a network, that covers pretty much every street. Yes it could be better. But cyclists have no such network

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I would argue that cyclists do have a network: roads. It's not cyclists' fault that the network can be dangerous, just as it isn't pedestrians' fault that their network can be dangerous.

    The common denominator is cars, whether or not they are being used, but especially when they are being used.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. neddie
    Member

    @Arellcat, yes, you are correct. Car-brain got the better of me

    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. bakky
    Member

    Being raised in London again as something to rail against, and once again the data being trotted out to counter it [X Link]:

    This review has shown that the risk of
    pedestrians being injured at bus stop
    bypasses is very low. There were five
    pedestrian casualties involving cyclists and
    one involving an e-scooter rider on bus stop
    bypasses over a three-year period. One of
    these casualties appears to have happened
    on the zebra crossing, where the user must
    give way to the pedestrian. To put this in
    context, 11,400 pedestrians were injured in
    collisions with motor vehicle drivers over
    the same timeframe.

    TFL Bus Stop Bypass safety review 2024

    Posted 1 month ago #

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