yes, it does look a bit cheap, tacky and from the wrong side of the Atlantic, doesn't it!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Train to London in 4 hours
(57 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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I actually rather liked it, in a 'proper railway era' sort of way.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Nice ride down on the Flying Scotman this morning. Could definitely have made a 10am meeting. No probs with the tandem. Only problem was all the one-way streets, which I usually walk with no problem - and without realizing they are one way.
My first time travelling first class - there were at least 3 coaches laid on, and hardly enough passengers to fill one. So lots of table space to spread out materials.
Most civilized!
Posted 14 years ago # -
I've only just found this thread. I had no idea we had so many trainspotters... :-/
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I had no idea we had so many trainspotters"
I think you'll find the term is "people with an interest in a wide range of transport options that have had for many years".
Posted 14 years ago # -
A bit like me being accused of being a 'twitcher' and scaling that back to 'birder'.
I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph. Shows how much I know!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Bicycle geeks are obsessive? Who knew?
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph"
Yes.
And 225s the same (kph).
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Bicycle geeks are obsessive?
More a question of obsessives knowing about optimum means of transport.
(And other things - e.g. birds).
Posted 14 years ago # -
I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph.
Branded, rather than "called", by BR - for the reason you mention.
They are generally known as the HST (defacto offical term I think) for "high speed train". In the TOPS computer system they are known as a pair of Class 43 locomotives and a rake of Mark III carriages (Not your standard Mark III carriages mind, they are wired differently and the two types are not compatible...) It was always intended as an "interim" solution pending something swishy for the future, but the basic concept of a pair of rather simple but very powerful high-speed diesel electric locomotives coupled to a light weight trainset has been so successful that 30-odd years later we're still humming and hawing about a potential replacement that really won't offer much more than its predecessor.
Likewise the "225" set is a Class 91 locomotive, a rake of Mark IV carriages and a Mark IV DVT (driving van trailer) which is where the bikes go. I don't think the "225" branding really stuck in the public imagination like "125" did. The 225 project based a lot of its technology and design concepts on the abortive APT-P / Class 370 "tilting train" that ultimately was stillborn and the Mark IV carriages are profiled and designed to be allowed to tilt at "some future date". That of course has never happened.
There were plans for a "250" for the West Coast, but BR never got the funding for it. It would have been a supped up version of the East Coast Class 91 with new Mark V carriages.
Here endeth the sermon. Let's talk about bikes again.
Posted 14 years ago # -
More a question of obsessives knowing about optimum means of transport.
Fair point.
Also perhaps helps to explain the increased incidence of recumbents amongst the confraternity associated with King's Buildings...
Posted 14 years ago # -
The Intercity 125 was pretty much the best card you could get in my childhood set of Top Trump trains (now sadly, lost).
- Best for speed
- Best for Year Introduced (1976 I think, don't think there was anything newer)
- Pretty good for Length.
Can't remember the other categories, but HP was probably in there and it was probably pretty good for that too.Posted 14 years ago # -
I don't think the "225" branding really stuck in the public imagination like "125" did.
It never did with me. I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra", and painted in Intercity livery.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"In the TOPS computer system they are known as a pair of Class 43 locomotives"
"set of Top Trump trains"
"I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra""
Too geeky for me (LOL, sic, etc.)
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Also perhaps helps to explain the increased incidence of recumbents amongst the confraternity associated with King's Buildings"
A bent of scientists?
Posted 14 years ago # -
I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra"
And we mourn the Class 89 not as the "Avocet" but as the "Badger"...
Posted 14 years ago # -
Lardbuckets - the traditional railway worker's opinion on the proposed replacement for HST (not yet ordered) Hitachi IEP boasts only 800Kg of train per seat and moving up as the project develops (HST is 730Kg per seat) A short HST ran at 148 mph testing the BT10 bogie mounted on a Mk 3 coach and structural analysis suggests that Mk 3 coaches remanufactured are good for another 40 years.
At times of cash shortage it is also calculated that the leasing cost for an HST is less than a third of that for an IEP.
The 225 loco (Class 91) is, if you study closely very largely the bogies and suspension of the ill-fated APT, with a large amount of the lessons learned incorporated in its design.
Of course the classic is the 99 Ton 3300 hp of the locos that preceded the HST with a track forces standard which is a benchmark for other locomotives.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Of course the classic is the 99 Ton 3300 hp of the locos that preceded the HST
Is that where the user name comes from then? ;)
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Is that where the user name comes from then?"
Yes...
You may have come across http://twitter.com/captain_deltic
(not same person)
Posted 14 years ago # -
...Hitachi IEP boasts only 800Kg of train per seat
In the current issue of Professional Engineering magazine, there's an article about the IEP.
"They will feature the same electrical architecture as the Class 395 although some will be bi-mode, or capable of both electric and diesel operation, to ensure they can be used in areas where there is no electrification."
But they also say:
"The IEP trains will also be bigger because the gauge size of the tracks in the parts of the country where they will operate is bigger than on the Channel Tunnel rail link ... The trains will also be lighter per seat than a Pendolino, for example. 'We have reversed the trend of trains getting heavier and heavier. We are lighter on a kilogram-per-seat basis.' This should help to reduce track wear, which was on of the stipulations of the tender from the Government for IEP."
The crazy thing is that the HST is still a damn good train, simply built. With my environmental hat on, I can almost forgive its dieselness because it's still the most comfortable train I've used.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I take it the "lightening" has been achieved through use of more "modern" construction materials? It is my understanding that the weight creep in the Mark IV and the Pendolino is due to how over-engineered they are for survivability purposes.
All this talk of weight and construction techniques and materials and we could almost get back to a bicycle based discussion!
Posted 14 years ago # -
I think that's exactly right, Kaputnik. The Voyagers and Pendolinos are renowned for their roll-over strength.
Back on topic, didn't a Class 91 test train do the London-Edinburgh run in 3.5 hours once? I'm sure they ran at 140mph for extended periods to do it, though I don't know if it was a non-stop. Even in the 1950s that was a timetabling and signalling challenge.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Indeed it did - a journo special with a lightened trainset (5 cars plus the DVT according to WP) in 3 hours, 29 minutes and 30 seconds at an average speed of 112.5 mph (181.1 km/h).
BR developed a tweak to the signalling in certain blocks on the ECML suitable for 140mph running with a flashing green aspect to indicate that the line ahead was clear for 2 blocks (as 1 block would be an insufficient safety margin for 140mph running). However that becomes a logistical and timetabling nightmare in itself as you are significantly reducing line capacity to allow the express trains to have an extra block clear ahead of them.
A HST could do it (reach 140mph) too, but only with a lightened trainset (5 carriages). A class 91 can do it with ease and on uphill gradients too apparently with its full consist - but that's where 6,300hp comes in useful (an HST set has a paltry 4,350bhp at the rail).
I guess tinkering around the edges with minimal funding was what BR's research and engineering fraternity were really good at. Putting things into practice less so...
Posted 14 years ago # -
Good run back on the last train last night, and fun cycle home in the dark - first time I've had lights on in a while. helios much admired in London. had a good chat with a chap who had his two little girls in a bakfeits (sp?). said his wife had an onderwater (spp???), which is a tandem (or more) but with the kids up front.
very cool to see lots of borisbikes being cycled around.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Kaputnik - Check out the record performance year and you'll see why I've picked the name. Good presentation on 27th about IEP at IMechE - some saving graces the doors have to be set in from ends of the 26 metre coaches - and thus create spaces that work well for bikes, toilets etc. The 26m is longer than 23m (Mk 3 Mk 4) and 20m (all other coaches) and is creating some interesting challenges because watering and other connections are all currently set up for shorter coaches.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Front of a 225 -
Posted 14 years ago # -
I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra", and painted in Intercity livery.
It only took them seven more years, but since we're all trainwatching at the moment, this is the Big Development:
And we mourn the Class 89 not as the "Avocet" but as the "Badger"…
Posted 6 years ago #
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