CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

The number of bicycle spaces on intercity trains just went up/down/other?

(8 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from LaidBack

  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I've previously grumbled that it's very unimpressive that the 61 foot-long luggage and driving trailer as used on the "225" East Coast Mainline sets can only hold an unimpressive 5 bicycles.

    The class 43 locomotives on the older diesel "125" sets can take 3 bicycles in one of the guard's compartment and have various other storage options depending on the operator for a total of between 6 and 9. These are the trains that go up to Aberdeen and Inverness where the line is not electified (building a £2.3bn bridge for commuters to drive from Fife is more of a priority than mainline railways serving the whole nation, but that's an aside).

    The Government today announced that they are going ahead with investing in the replacement for the ageing HST sets, the "Agility Trains Intercity Express Programme" (IEP).

    IEP is a range of electric, diesel and electro-diesels (Hybrid is the fashionable term these days). Set lengths range from 5 to 10 cars. So where I'm going with this lecture on railway trains? Well the thing is, the design standards that the DfT sets out only specify that it is essential that cycle stowage will fit a "25 inch road bicyle frame". It's actually up to operators if they want to elect to carry bicycles. So there is the very real possibility that all this investment in shiny new trains will actually decrease the capacity for cycles on intercity trains.

    It is worth noting that the most recent intercity trains to come to the UK have the following bicycle capacity.

    * Class 390 Pendolino (10 car set) - Virgin West Coast - 4
    * Class 220/221 Voyager (4/5 car set) - Virgin West Coast 4, Arriva Cross Country took over the old Virgin XCountry Service and promptly reduced cycle capacity on their trains to 2
    * Class 180 Adelante (5 car set) - Northern/Hull/Grand Central - 3 at each end = 6

    So it's been a bit of a mixed bag with the stowage largely depending on the operator's whims and business model. It's a very real possibility that space could be reduced. The government, I'm sure, will sit on the fence and say "ooh, it's up to the operators, we encourage active lifestyles blahdeeblah didn't you know Dave rides a bike and so does Boris, nothing to do with us guvner"

    Northern Rail should get extra points for actively encouraging bikes and cyclists on a lot of their services and having a cycle user's forum.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. Morningsider
    Member

    Kaputnik - the bike carrying capacity of these new trains isn't clear yet. The trains are being specified by the UK Department for Transport, with input from train operating companies. The initial specifications you link to are out of date as the programme has changed considerably since its inception - principally the diesel trains will no longer be built due to the proposed electrification of the Great Western line to Cardiff and value for money considerations have come to the fore.

    Most trains will be electric only, with a number of electro-diesels (bi-mode I think you'll find, hybrid is soooo last year).

    I would take an educated guess that there will be no equivalent of a guards van on these trains as they will use distributed traction, meaning a fairly meagre bike carrying capacity. No more than 4 per full size set I would bet. Hopefully someone like CTC or SPOKES has lobbied the DfT on this as they aren't exactly known for their love of bikes.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. LaidBack
    Member

    Arriva Cross Country took over the old Virgin XCountry Service and promptly reduced cycle capacity on their trains to 2

    Yes,,, but in reality there are 3 spaces. They allow only two to be booked and the third is just there.

    We did the family hols with the two of us and daughter with pal (so two bikes and the compact tandem!) 2 years ago. I had bike bag just in case as I just couldn't book that extra space, In reality it wasn't needed and we had smooth journey from Edinburgh to Roscoff via Plymouth.

    These XC trains have a large luggage area with two long robust shelves so were actually quite good. The bikes hang vertically just insed the doors and not inside the front compartment like the Virgin Voyager trains.

    On the way down someone brought a bike onboard and just fitted it in below luggage shelf - so much more flexible than these mini areas that they have on some trains.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Interesting LaidBack - clearly the "paper" number of spaces is not neccessarily an accurate reflection of the number of bikes that you can fit on a train! And of course much of it is to do with the generosity of spirit / fastidious jobsworthyness of the train guard.

    The DVT on 225 trains could easily fit about 30 bikes if you fitted them in "right". I've been on a Scotrail train from Ardrossan to Central with no designated cycle space in the carriage but carrying at least 12 bikes, thanks to a co-operative and helpful guard.

    The racks on the Turbostar trains are "meant" for 2 bikes I think but I've seen them with 4 and other cycles in other locations on the train.

    I guess it's much like the old wheelbender / sheffield stand "what's the best sort of bike rack" debate - clearly some are better than others and there's no accepted, universal solution. Perhaps there should be? (Or at least guidelines).

    I've often thought that for lines like the West Highland and the Far North, they should just marshall an appropriate lightweight, half-sized, intermediate vehicle in the middle of the consist where a large number of cycles or other outsize luggage could be securely stored without affecting the passenger carrying capability or performance of the trains.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "thanks to a co-operative and helpful guard"

    I got this the other day as a comment on the 'Edinburgh Park Fiasco'

    CCE was having a fiasco that day so I forgot to post -

    "
    I usually am pretty relaxed about bike numbers - and can't remember ever refusing one. However, I guess I ignore the guidelines re. bikes at times - others stick to them and that causes hassle but management would no doubt back up staff in this situation (since they issued the guidelines in the first place!).
    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. LaidBack
    Member

    The staff at Ardrossan seem to expect bikes with Arran ferry close by - was pleased to see that they had good attitude.

    You're right Kaputnik about putting some more capacity on Highland trains. Many 'modern cyclists' seem to shun trains as the impression is that they have no space.

    As I've said many times before - use East Cost and you can get your bike spaces booked online and get cheap tickets. I came back from Perth last year on a Sunday for only £7.
    EAST COAST CAN BOOK SCOTRAIL BIKE SPACES

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    BUT PERTH'S NOT ON THE EAST COAST!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. LaidBack
    Member

    Perth is on the East Coast route (edit!) - has as many as one train a day operated by them. (Know you know that!)

    What I also meant to say is that the East Coast Company can sell tickets for any operator with a bike space.
    I book online and then pop down to ticket machine at station armed with the code (which they sometimes don't require!) as I hate picking up ticket with bike on the day as it's a faff.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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