CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News

Sometimes we can't win...

(15 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from kaputnik

No tags yet.


  1. I'd forgotten about this little snippet from my commute last week that made me realise how deeply ingrained the 'anti-cyclist' sentiment can be.

    Riding towards Tollcross from the Meadows, pedestrian crossing is at red for traffic. I stop, as does the cyclist beside me. People cross, we wait for green and go. Just as we set off one of the last couple of guys to cross turns to his mate and asys, "Of course cyclists usually don't stop."

    So even when you do something absolutely right it's a lead-in to a complaint about errant cyclists.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    Did you mutter anything at them (or jump off to interview them for CC)?
    "I do, and did" or "only SOME don't" or "I know, so you're best off passing comment on the ones who don't at the time when they can hear and (potentially) heed you rather than just annoying two law-abiding cyclists" rather than "well, pedestrians don't usually look. And they smell" or worse?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. Sadly that morning was the only one last week where I was running hideously late so had no time to stop (when my light was green, obviously, I had to stop at the red...)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I got similarly wound up by a throwaway remark from a pedestrian a few weeks back, was doing the quick right our of Gilmour Place, navigating the potholed junction outside the Kings then directly left into Valleyfield.

    There's a lot for your hands to be doing, braking, signalling, turning around potholes etc., checking over shoulders for cars or cyclists cutting up your inside or outside yadda yadda.

    As I turned into Valleyfield, chump and his ladyfriend were stepping out onto the raised roadway bit on t'uther side of road and he loudly commented "where's your signal."

    I debated either giving him a shout of a few short, sharp phrases or stopping and getting off to give him a lecture that A/ I did signal my turn before I made it B/ he couldn't see it because it was hidden behind my body C/ at that junction I'm more concerned about traffic behind me seeing the signal D/ we were nowhere near eachother E/ there's more pressing matters when making that turn than holding an arm out wide to the left as you go round the corner and F/ he's embarrasing his girlfriend and should try getting on a bike and shedding a few pounds.

    But I went home silently boiling with rage about smart retorts I could have given and how he had spoiled an otherwise nice ride home.

    I suppose the difference with such comments directed at cars is that we actually hear them. I think as these comments are either made to imrpess the friend or to deliberately rile you, the best response is either no response or to laugh it off and try not let it get to you.

    Like you said, we can't win.

    Amir and I were passed by an idiot in a Ford Focus on an otherwise completely empty A708 just before the Grey Mare's Tail. It's 2 lane, straight road with great sightlines. We heard the car coming, singled up and pulled in a bit only for the passenger to be hanging out the window yelling "why don't you pay road tax". I managed to respond with some anglo saxon while they were still in hearing distance but sadly there were too many miles in our legs to catch the car on the climb out of the valley and deliver the lecture about "road tax". Wish we had stayed side-by-side taking up a whole half of the lane now, just to have really incovenienced him. They obviously saw us in the distance and mate said to driver "ha ha, watch and learn, this is how clever I am".

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. mgj
    Member

    He was maybe wrong on the signal, but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so (HWC Rule 170)... (Do we have a candidate for the most ignored rule in the HWC?)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. recombodna
    Member

    People always walk into the road with out looking at that valleyfield junction. I've had a few near misses there. The pedestrians are generally annoyed that I've almost crashed into them even though they're the ones who walk out into the road without looking........jeezso some folk eh?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. Min
    Member

    And even if they do look and see you signalling they walk out anyway. Thing to remember is that when you are cycling you are ALWAYS wrong.

    Though a couple of times recently I had drivers hold their hand up to acknowledge their mistake. Most unusual.

    I agree that if you behave properly then you just become a target for people to vent their spleen at you. Happened to me many a time. Not much of an incentive to behave..

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so

    six of one, two sixes and half a dozen of the other, as I was already across the line for the corner when they were stepping out - as in they made the cross after I had made the turn.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. He was maybe wrong on the signal, but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so (HWC Rule 170)... (Do we have a candidate for the most ignored rule in the HWC?)

    Technically that rule is for roads you are turning into - though personally I think pedestrians should have priority in all cases for crossing the road. But I really do wish people would look before stepping out.

    watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. miggy_magic
    Member

    watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

    Is this the case when the pedestrian is crossing when the red man is on? Reason I ask is that I've had the odd heated exchange with folk who've just started crossing Chambers Street (the South Bridge end) when I've been trying to turn into it on my bike.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. Technically yes. Pedestrians are not bound by the colour of the lit man, unlike traffic.

    There are quirks. Where a cyclepath shares a crossing with a pedestrian crossing then you can cycle through the red bike symbol - if it is a 'bike only' set of lights (I can't think of any off the top of my head) then you have to treat it like a normal traffic light.

    All very confusing, which is why I generally go by the rule of 'most vulnerable always takes priority'... But still needs to have all parties also exercising common sense.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    miggy_magic: Is this the case when the pedestrian is crossing when the red man is on?

    I think this is when you're turning into a side road and pedestrians are crossing. You're supposed to wait. But given how little known the rule is, if you do and there's a car behind you you've got to trust the driver to know the rule and not rear-end you.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. Arellcat
    Moderator

    What kaputnik forgot to mention was that when he, LB and I were out on Saturday we were heading back into town along the A70, and stopped at the red light just before Curriehill Road. The two elderly pedestrians at the crossing were very hesitant to cross and looked at us as if expecting our trio of hell raisin', law breakin' two-wheeled ne'er-do-wells to barge through without a care. Despite the fact that we were actually racing along at zero mph at that precise moment.

    I've noticed it happening a lot when I'm in town these days. Pedestrians hesitating to cross, assuming that I'll ignore the red light and brush past rudely and dangerously. That's our RLJ community doing that.

    This morning it balanced out a little, as the lead car that stopped a short distance behind a red light, decided to take off before the amber light had even lit up. I, meanwhile, being next in line cheerily held up the rest of the traffic until the green light came on.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. wingpig
    Member

    What does everyone reckon to be the best way to brake to make it completely obvious to pedestrians that you ARE braking for their crossing? I usually slow as soon as I know I have to stop, braking gradually but obviously with added obvious downshiftyclicks so that I stop smoothly just behind the line (or bit further back, if people are already crossing (and not paying attention to where the little inset metal bits are)) rather than stopping more suddenly nearer the crossing (which carries the risk of being rear-ended, if followed, or of frightening the pedestrians) but their wariness is frequently palpable. The problem with either stopping gradually or more suddenly (and arguably more obviously) is that I worry either method might create the impression of not wanting to completely stop, or of doing that slow-down-a-bit-but-trundle-through thing that some RLJers seem to consider equivalent to stopping.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    drag your heels along the ground then throw yourself over the handlebars, landing at their feet to protrate yourself in the name of forgiveness? Still wouldn't satisfy some people!

    Posted 14 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin