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Made in Scotland(?)

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Started 13 years ago by chdot
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chdot
Admin

There was a time when Scotland had a bicycle industry. In more recent times there have been a few frame builders but not much else.

There was also a car industry - in Edinburgh - "said to be the oldest purpose-built car factory in the UK"

But Linwood and Bathgate no more.

England used to be pretty significant in world bicycle manufacturing. Sturmey Archer stuff is now made in Taiwan and Raleigh imports everything.

There's still Brompton and Pashley, Brooks and a few other.

Europe and America have bike industries - again with a lot made in far eastern factories - but with a significant R&D and specialist sector.

American SRAM Is a serious competitor to Shimano and has bought and revitalised bits of European industry.

Scotland has a significlant manufacturing past and not insignificant present - buses (not trams), warships, electronics, oil exploration and newer energy industries.

Bicycle bits ought to be easy. It's not just a question of price. There are plenty of people on here, and elsewhere, willing to pay for quality or 'something a bit 'different'.

I wrote this because I came across yet another US company which "started out making parts for themselves in their garage" -

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/gamut-usa-Behind-The-Scenes-2011.html

Posted 13 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

A beautiful bicycle - made in Scotland - for everyday riding

That's the line Ayrshire-based Nick Lobnitz uses to describe his user-friendly Paper Bicycle.

Shortly to be reviewed in Velo Vision.

Nick's other designs include the Carry Freedom trailer range plus work for R&M on their new curvier Birdy (produced by Taiwanese company Pacific Cycles as are other bikes for this German Marque).

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"A beautiful bicycle - made in Scotland"

You sure about that??

Posted 13 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

I'm merely quoting his advert to you;-)

According to his site 'some of them are'.

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

The lollypop for CarryFreedom's hitch is made in Aberdeen but I'm fairly sure the trailers are mare outwith the UK.

Posted 13 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

You sure about that??

According to the Flickr photostream, the factory is in Taiwan. There's nothing wrong with that, they build good bicycles, but it's certainly not Scotland!

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

Pashley used to make the Britannia which had all parts sourced from the UK but then SA moved to Taiwan.

The Paper bike has SA hubs.

http://www.simple-city.com/paperbicycle/about.html

My name is Nick Lobnitz, I designed the Paper Bicycle, and build some of them here in Scotland.

He doesn't say where the rest of them are made.

Posted 13 years ago #
gembo
Member

Another UK bike manufacturer (I have no idea what they are like) is Whyte

http://www.whytebikes.com/2011/about_us.php

THey only claim to design and test their bikes in UK

good link in the Paper Bike site to Patrick Harvey Green MSP riding a Green Paper Bike out of the East Dunbartonshire Bike Co-op in Bishopbriggs (aka Bishie). The ED Co-op aims to get people back into cycling to make the world happier [according to the blurb]

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Isn't it great though that there is a bicycle designed in Scotland? And a bicycle trailer that has earned a reputation as one of the best on the market (though it was apparently a Scottish/Canadian collaboration).

'Designed in Scotland' is still worth quite a lot.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Isn't it great though that there is a bicycle designed in Scotland?"

Yes.

I wasn't implying that it all had to be made here, or else...

I don't know if the US has disproportionately more 'garage businesses' than the UK. The 'invention' of the Mountain Bike in California was (almost) accidental. But its development was fueled by local frame builders, workshop tinkerers and collaboration with companies like SunTour - then big in Japan.

Scotland is currently a serious UK/world 'destination' for riding - particularly offroad.

Should we 'expect' a '7Stanes brand' of hubs, chainrings, forks etc??

Or an Edinburgh based brand of windproof commuter clothing or Harris Tweed Helmets?

Apparently Scotland can build oil rigs and wind turbine towers, but smaller stuff?

Does this relate to a climate of 'only big solutions matter'?

A new Forth bridge instead of questioning whether traffic growth is likely (oil price/availability) or desirable. More energy production instead of a mass insulation programme (which would probably create more jobs).

Of course a Scottish cottage bike industry is hardly 'the future', but it might be fun.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@chdot Does this relate to a climate of 'only big solutions matter'?

A new Forth bridge instead of questioning whether traffic growth is likely (oil price/availability) or desirable. More energy production instead of a mass insulation programme (which would probably create more jobs).

Unfortunately there are a lot of populist politicians who see things in terms of grand gestures. I believe Scotland has just voted a bunch of them in with a working majority!

Alas we seem to have lost some traditional Scottish values such as thrift, common sense, pragmatism and 'making do'. I blame the consumer culture, of which the car is most visible manifestation. People appear not to see the insanity of it all, perhaps because they are too busy playing 'keep up with the Joneses'...

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@chdot Of course a Scottish cottage bike industry is hardly 'the future', but it might be fun.

But it is the future, or at least part of it. A new Forth road bridge is, in comparison, a step backwards to the early 1960s.

Posted 13 years ago #
alibali
Member

They don't make bikes but Endura make clothing and accesories..

"Endura Ltd was founded in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1992 by a keen club cyclist (Jim McFarlane) after his return to Scotland from a 14 month stay in Sydney."

There are lots of people with the skills to make cycles or parts in small or large volumes, design or manufacture, but they are fragmented with the big customers in O&G, alternatives and utilities (including railways and power generation) geting their attention. Few companies in engineering make a big thing about thing Scottish so they often fly under the radar (like Wolfson, for example).

Sorry to bang on about 3D printers again but they are disruptive and a great opportunity to do something new.

Or, here's an idea. A "smart" frame that logs strain in critical components and indicates power output/imminent failure/tyre deflation/brake overheating etc with data displayed on a smart phone (oh, OK maybe even an iPhone if you must).

It's all here-and-now tech, just not applied to bikes.

We need to capitalise on (say) Sir Chris they way the Boardman brand has been used.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"But it is the future, or at least part of it."

Yes.

Wasn't suggesting 'no future' - more questioning size/scale.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Few companies in engineering make a big thing about thing Scottish so they often fly under the radar (like Wolfson, for example)."

Lot of truth in that.

Bet even some of the well-informed people on here don't know about Wolfson/iPod - and that the staff got one (1st gen I think) as a Christmas present.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Wolfson even had a cycling connection a few years ago - sponsorship.

Apparently the design team for the iPod and Playstation chip was led by Jim Reid, Technical Director of Wolfson - Chris' uncle (now retired).

Posted 13 years ago #
druidh
Member

http://www.packashack.co.uk/

Posted 13 years ago #
TwoWheels
Member

Having read "How the Scots Invented the Modern World," I understand that the construction of a simple bicycle might be a bit of a step down for y'all. But, frankly, I think it's high time that somebody over there gets off their duff and design and build a new recumbent bike.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"I think it's high time that somebody over there gets off their duff and design and build a new recumbent bike."

There are quite a few 'bent fans on this forum.

I'm sure one will tell the whole tale about the people who used to make them in Edinburgh.

But that was before they got popular (if that is the right word...)

Certainly a sensible suggestion - combines skill and niche etc.

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

You could always do what they Japanese did and rename a town in the far east 'Scotland', where they make whisky.

Then you could put 'Made in Scotland' on it.

Posted 13 years ago #
alibali
Member

How about this as a benchmark? (from Germany)

Posted 13 years ago #
ruggtomcat
Member

I dont actually think thats very pretty, what about..

pure pr0n

Posted 13 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

But that was before they got popular (if that is the right word...)
Once despised, now tolerated!;-)

Edinburgh company was Aerobikes - based in Duddingston.

Aerobikes Brochure

This is site of Ben Cooper in Glasgow who runs Kinetics. Ben has some other interesting brochure shots including Neatworks in the Borders.

From what I hear Aerobikes made around 14 machines in total. Today's companies make around 400 to 1200 machines a year.

No doubt the Aerobikes was ahead of its time and probably could outperform the early 'winners' in the recumbent scene. Of course lower to mid-height bikes sell more in my experience - for lots of reasons. Designs have evolved to meet demand since then and if Aerobike were still around it would have been very handy for me!

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

@LaidBack

Following your link you'll find -

"
I was just doing a bit of 'vanity surfing' and noticed that you had some info on the Aerobike. I actually designed and built the Aerobike with Edinburgh veteran cycle enthusiast Loren Hufstetler and ex-RAF airframe fitter Bill Davidson. We made about 36 framesets, but only completed and sold 28-30 of them. There was an awful lot of hype going around at the time (mostly generated by Neatwork and a few other vendors) that recumbents were the next huge thing, but our experience was that they were a niche market within a niche market, and no-one who wanted one really had the money to buy one. We sold the Aerobike from £1200 - 1800 and it was hard going.

The Sprint on the other hand was all my own work - designed and prototyped over a two-week Christmas holiday in about 1993 so that I could do a bit of BHPC racing.

I'm afraid you're unlikely to find an Aerobike Sprint for sale, even on eBay, as I only made four of them. My dad has one, Andy Harrington has another, there's one in Aberdeen somewhere and the last one went to Korea.

"

Posted 13 years ago #
BenKinetics
Member

It's fun when my Flickr stats lead somewhere interesting ;-)

With the Paper Bicycle, the first 5 or 6 frames were made by me here in Glasgow. The production frames are being made in Taiwan, and bikes are being assembled in a few different places depending on who they're going to - ones to people in the UK are mostly being assembled in Ayrshire.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"With the Paper Bicycle, the first 5 or 6 frames were made by me here in Glasgow."

Very interesting.

What are your thoughts on more design/production in Scotland?

Posted 13 years ago #
BenKinetics
Member

Design and prototyping, definitely - we can design bike stuff with the best of them, and already do - one of Cannondale's head designers lives (or used to) in Edinburgh, to give a random example.

Manufacturing, no - we don't have the infrastructure for mass production any more.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Manufacturing, no - we don't have the infrastructure for mass production any more."

I suppose it depends how you define "mass".

Clearly not a 'full range bicycle factory' - but low/medium volume components?

There are still place like this -

http://www.bruntons.co.uk/capability.htm

Posted 13 years ago #
BenKinetics
Member

Medium-high end components can be done - just look at how well Hope are doing. The problem is the frame manufacturing - companies like Pashley and Brompton (and, well, that's about it) make reasonable numbers of steel frames in the UK, but at a high cost in terms of equipment and training - there's no infrastructure of frame building companies where new welders can learn their craft, and no companies making the jigs and rapid production equipment. And no-one doing aluminium, titanium or carbon at all.

It's not really a wages thing - Taiwanese frame builders are quite well paid - it's that there's little incentive for anyone to learn it so there's no skill base. Unlike CNCing, which can be bike parts or aircraft parts or whatever, bike frame building uses some special skills which aren't much use for anything else, at least not without a lot of retraining.

Posted 13 years ago #
Arellcat
Moderator

What small companies like Gamut are doing is really the 2010s take on the proliferation in the early 1990s of 'garage machinists' like John Grafton, tooled up with a newfangled CNC machine or two and making semi-production components out of 'billet' to their own design. Whatever happened to Speed Controller cantis?

But then, companies like Sram, Harley Davidson and Apple Computer started in exactly the same way. It's driving a wedge into a niche and opening it up with a capability to deliver and develop in equal measure. But it also has to be the killer app amongst an unprepared competition, which is perhaps why Speed Controllers didn't fare so well, and why Gripshift and iPods did.

Posted 13 years ago #

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