CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Flatbed Truck Maniac

(16 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by gembo
  • Latest reply from Wilmington's Cow

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  1. gembo
    Member

    I was ambling along Queen St the other day hugging close to the pavement holding my line when a very wide flatbed truck with advertising for Wolseley Boilers sped past taking a line which left six inches between me and him (had to be a him). Coming up behind him at the next traffic lights I observed that he had a sticker on his tailgate which read "Cyclists [with bike symbol] beware, this vehicle is liable to turn left"

    That someone has gone to the trouble to produce such a sticker is quite worrying. I am concluding from the two pieces of evidence (sticker and six inches) that there is a plumber/boiler deliverer going round edinburgh in a very wide flat bed truck looking for cyclists to harass. Beware.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. SRD
    Moderator

    I would have assumed sticker was a response to all those London death of (female) cyclists in similar incidents? not sure what I think of it, but ... sounds like the driver needs some training though?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    could be the incidence of fatality on the blind side, skewed by gender produced the sticker. Does prompt me to wonder if that actual stat is a random piece of info that has been turned into an issue, rather than a significant statistical trend. Obviously, tragic in the nature of individuals dying.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

  5. gembo
    Member

    Chris I checked the second link. Raises the issue for me (remaining mindful of the tragic circumstances) that the numbers are too small to have reliable stats. HOwever, as case studies eight women have gone up the inside of a lorry and only one man has done so with resulting fatalities.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. Kim
    Member

    @ gembo part of the problem here is that you were "hugging close to the pavement" this is actually a very dangerous place to be. I don't want to sound as if I am blaming the victim, but you should be at least 80-100cm out from the edge of the road. Many (if not most) drivers have a very narrow field of view when driving, they don't look to the sides (which they should), consistences is that they don't see cyclist who are gutter hugging.

    As for the female cyclist in London killed by lorries, I don't agree with the suggestions that it is because they obey the traffic lights or that they are more likely to have filtered up the left side of long vehicles. What is actually happening is the cyclist are too close to the kerb and not see by the drivers, who then turn left on top of them. Remember that long vehicles often swing right first, from this position the drivers are less likely to look to the kerb, they are looking to see if there is on come traffic in the road they are turning into.

    A friend of mine in Aberdeen was hit in just this way, he survived with a broken hip. For obvious reasons I have spent time think about this situation and how it can be avoided. For the cyclist, the best thing to do is when approaching a junction, always move into the primary position occupying the middle of the lane in which you are riding. Here you are in the middle of the drivers field of vision, this takes a certain amount of confidence, but it is actually the safest way of dealing with junction.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    I will go into the middle of the lane in intersections and where there are parked cars, but I can't see justification for doing this down say, Melville Drive. We do have to share roads with cars; I wish more drivers saw it that way, but surely it would be foolish for a normal-speed cyclist to insist on driving down the middle of the lane and holding up traffic?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. PS
    Member

    It depends what speed a "normal-speed" cyclist is doing. I've made it a habit to be a car door out form the side and in the primary position at key intersections and it seems to work out. I tend to aim for 20mph as my "cruising" speed.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. Kim
    Member

    The average speed of traffic in Edinburgh in rush hour is about 10mph, many cyclist will be doing about 12mph as an average "cruising" speed. Once clear of the hazard, the cyclist can when it is safe to do so, move into the Secondary position to allow other traffic to pass. Your safety is more important than driver convenience.

    If you would like to know more about vehicular cycling I can highly recommend reading Cyclecraft, or if you would like to get some training, there are 32 qualified Cycle Trainers in Edinburgh (including me). I know that Edinburgh Uni offers free training to staff and students, and there is a scheme just starting which will offer training to staff of SME's in Edinburgh.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. Min
    Member

    The average speed of drivers going along Queen Street is...very fast. Attempting to take the primary position for the whole distance along Queen Street would likely result in some pretty extreme driver aggression. I have had plenty from taking it for a few seconds to get through a junction or past an obstacle.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. Kim
    Member

    Min I wouldn't advocate trying to take the primary position for the whole distance along Queen Street, only where you need to in order to protect your self on the approach to hazards. Yes there are some drivers who are aggressive, but you are more at risk from bullies if you give into them. We all have the same right to use the roads. Being confident and cycling positively can does make you safer.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. Min
    Member

    Fair enough I just wanted to clarify that since all this is in response to a cyclist who was not approaching a juntion or any hazards and was just riding along. There is no way to protect yourself from the type of driver who drives this dangerously close since they will do it no matter where you are in the road.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    Good debate, but no way you can cycle 100cm from the pavement on Queen St. on the stretches between junctions but I agree about drivers not being able to see you on their blindside. Some of the junctions have boxes but some don't so Cyclecraft gives you the correct if sometimes hard to sustain cycling position THe left down Hanvoer St used to have a massive pothole just where the bike would go but that is now filled in.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "I wouldn't advocate trying to take the primary position for the whole distance along Queen Street, only where you need to in order to protect your self on the approach to hazards."

    I ride Queen Street quite often - mostly Hanover Street westward. It's certainly not for the fainthearted. Some speed and confidence to use the 'primary position' is necessary. In addition to the dreadful surface in many place, the lighting is not suitable for a 'main road'

    But then Queen Street isn't suitable for the weight and volume of traffic currently using it. It's only because of the Georgian planners that the road is as wide as it - which was more to do with 'elegance' than (un)predictable traffic growth.

    Much of the traffic is due to designating Princes Street for bikes and Public Transport only, but it also highlights the (inevitable?) acceptance that large volumes of motor traffic have to be catered for rather than managed within the resources available. Queen Street is not suitable as a fast 'through road'.

    It probably should have a 20mph limit (which may be difficult to enforce, initially). There's certainly room for nice 3m cycle lanes - perhaps even segregated ones. Both on the Gardens side? Certainly there is occasional concern about how long the retaining walls in the Gardens will hold up...

    That might leave room for one (motor) lane in each direction. which would help to keep speeds down - one reason for the 'race track' is that there are two lanes of vehicles rushing between red lights.

    A single lane in each direction with sensibly phased lights would be able to deal with similar volumes to the present - much more safely.

    Who keeps going on about flying mammals?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. I ride Queen Street most days. Heading East I tend to take a strong secondary, knowing by looking ahead that the traffic is stopped anyway (it's always at rush hour) and so any inconvenience a driver feels should (note 'should') dissapate when we hit that queue and I filter away. In some instances primary is necessary purely because of the state of the road to the left, and going past the exit from St Andrew Square primary is absolutely necessary as the road narrows down to one lane because of roadworks, and the left side is utterly mental with potholes.

    Heading West I'll generally take primary going past parked cars (in order to stay out of the door zone).

    It is possible to control traffic doing this, but there will always be one or two who still think they can squeeze by (and then get retaken not too far further on).

    Posted 14 years ago #
  16. "A single lane in each direction with sensibly phased lights..."

    Ah, Copenhagen's 'green phase', specifically designed so that cyclists going at an easy cruising pace could get green light after green light.

    Their pigs flew a loooooong time ago.

    Posted 14 years ago #

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