CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Accident Blackspot - Removal

(16 posts)

  1. blairdunc
    Member

    Accident Blackspot at junction between Cannon Mills & Broughtion Road

    I cycle south bound from Lieth in to town via above junction. Three times in two weeks (including twice in two days), cars have nearly hit me at this junction. This is unacceptable and I hope that improvements may be made to cyclist safety, here.

    Problem

    The cycle lane for south bound cyclists is at the left side of a left hand traffic filter lane. Left turning cars are assuming they can turn left without looking and in my case have slammed on their breaks having pushed me a little in to Broughton Road. There is no 'straight ahead'lane for bikes, to match that for cars.

    Possable solitions

    An appropriate filterlane for bikes. I feal that the council would have designed such were it practical. The area is probably too busy and narrow.

    Two or more, "Beware of cyclists travelling ahead" warning signs (lit) might be useful. In the dark (when I've been in trouble) cars probably can't even see the existing cycle lane. Signs would be practicable and cheap.

    Questions

    Does anyone else think this topic is worth pursuing?
    Has anyone had similar experience of this at the same or other junctions in Edinburgh
    Is it worth presenting the council with this matter and perhaps a list of other affected junctions.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  2. gembo
    Member

    Blairdunc that is a bad junction. Approx two years ago at the same junction but heading north there used to be a green light as you came out of Eyre Place allowing cyclists only to go straight ahead onto Broughton Road (as it is one way for cars but not bikes). If you took the green light the chances were that cars in the right hand lane travelling south, turned right often without indicating) and hit you. The council's solution was to remove the green light and put up a cyclists dismount sign.

    I do think a compilation of dodgy junctions is worthwhile but I imagine you are preaching to the converted here.

    Is it worth altering your route?

    Posted 15 years ago #

  3. PS
    Member

    Aye, it's a crappy junction, with the added irritant that if the lights are red you've got a hill start to do. It's very near my home, so I come in that way if I've been cycling to the west of the city. I always take the primary position from the Canonmills traffic lights all the way to through the lights onto Rodney Street, at which point I veer left into the cycle lane and give a thumbs up to any cars that are behind me to say 'thanks'.

    That said, that's me on a road bike, so I'm not holding traffic up too much, and not at rush hour. I'd still be tempted to stay in the traffic though, rather than get sucked into the side. Half the time the lights will be red anyway, so you shouldn't be holding cars up too much (although I accept that that may not be how the drivers necessarily see it).

    Posted 15 years ago #

  4. Min
    Member

    I think this is a fairly common problem and is known as a "left hook" where drivers cut you up to turn left. They should not be overtaking you at this point even if you are turning left as they always cut in towards the pavement leaving you no space. The only solution, as PS suggests above is to take the primary position going through the junction.

    Here is how to do it-as you approach the juntion, as one car passes you look right round behind you and stick your right arm out. Be careful as this sometimes encourages drivers to put their foot down but in general I find Edinburgh drivers to be pretty good. When they have slowed down to let you manouver, move out until you are in the middle of the lane and proceed through the junction, moving back in when you are safely across. It never does any harm to give a wee wave to the driver who let you move across to thank them.

    I appreciate that this will be difficult as you are going uphill but it can't be any worse that the situation at the moment! Another alternative if you are coming from Leith is to use the cycle path. This brings you out at Broughton Road where you turn left at that junction.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    It's a badly designed junction made worse by the steepness at the lights. Given the complete nonsense of the "Cyclists Dismount" sign in Eyre Place, this junction should be on a 'redesign priority list'.

    I took this photo after being carved up by a John Lewis lorry.

    This led to an interesting e-mail exchange (part of, below) which ended with me being 'persuaded' that the issue would be brought up in staff reviews...

    "The fact that it was a "near miss" is not the issue.

    I was in the correct position on the road the lorry didn't indicate and turned left in front of me. The passenger appeared to shout abuse as though it was my fault. I was forced to turn left into Broughton Road when I was intending to go straight ahead.

    In short your staff appear to have no interest in observing the rules of road or (even if I had been in the wrong) paying adequate attention to other road users.

    So either they misled you as to what happened or you are condoning their actions."

    The lead-in bike lane should probably be in the middle (like Buccleuch Street) with a proper left turn lane.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  6. SRD
    Moderator

    "The lead-in bike lane should probably be in the middle (like Buccleuch Street) with a proper left turn lane." Yes, but the road is probably too narrow. A lot of problems would be solved with 'proper' turning lanes (not to mention people actually using their indicators).

    PS am not sure we can assume that if there was space then 'council would have put it in'. the one at Buccleuch st/melville Drive is the only good one of these I know of. There is a wee one on salisbury Place but it mainly works because there is a left-turn only lane there.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Yes, but the road is probably too narrow"

    Just need to re-arrange existing lanes. I don't think too many vehicles turn right.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  8. PS
    Member

    Good point - there really is little need for a car to be turning right at that junction as it would take much the same time for it to go up Brandon St and then turn left into Eyre Place.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "there really is little need for a car to be turning right at that junction"

    Yes - only real need is for access as it's a one way street (for a short stretch) - but people could still come from south or east.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  10. Kim
    Member

    The problem has been worst by the repainting of the cycle land and the addition of left turn markings in the left hand lane. It is almost as if CEC is trying to cause accidents there...

    ref

    Posted 15 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    "there really is little need for a car to be turning right at that junction" Ah yes; quite right. This is one of those junctions I walk a lot, but have never attempted on bike or car. Highlights the importance of perspective! (doubtless planners rarely cycle through...)

    Posted 15 years ago #

  12. Dave
    Member

    If this is junction we're talking about, I don't see why it can't have the bike lane in between the lanes, as is done outside the Dick Vet and also near Blackford Station (two examples from near me).

    However even at the second example, you can see the well-thought out cycle lane on the west side of the junction, but if you are coming from the south-east, the filter point is again on the left of a left-turn lane, despite most cyclists heading right up to Marchmont. So even in one junction design, they can't get it right :-|

    Posted 15 years ago #

  13. Kim
    Member

    That is the junction Dave, since that picture was taken the road markings have been repainted, now in the left hand lane has left turn markings. So cyclist travelling south (i.e. the road straight ahead) is guided up the left of traffic in a left turn lane. It is almost as if someone set out to create an accident blackspot.

    Posted 15 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "since that picture was taken the road markings have been repainted, now in the left hand lane has left turn markings."

    Presumably it did when it was first designed?

    Posted 15 years ago #

  15. Kim
    Member

    I don't remember there being left turn markings there before (I used to commute along that road) there use to be a bit of a scramble of car traffic travelling south as two lanes become one on the south side of the junction. So the left turn markings have been added to the north side for the motorised traffic. While they where at it they repainted the cycle lane, so that the cyclist wouldn't feel left out, all part of CEC cycle friendly policy.

    Here is a picture of the north side of the junction

    Thanks Chris

    Posted 15 years ago #

  16. Dave
    Member

    Does the council bear any responsiblity for accidents arising out of this? There must surely be guidance in their design manuals that putting straight on traffic on the left of turn-left traffic will result in accidents?

    If anyone has ever raised this with the council, what was the response? They clearly recognise the wisdom of laning between (since they do it in some places), why not everywhere?

    I wonder whether there should be some kind of Edinburgh cycle audit / group to document dangerous design (in the hopes that, with the danger pointed out in advance, the council might take preventative action?). I guess it's the sort of 'good idea' that needs a lot of volunteer time (as with all such things).

    Posted 15 years ago #

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