For info
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Residents-are-blamed-for-speeding-in-20mph-zone-08072011.htm
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
South Central 20 mph
(175 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
-
Latest 'Dear Resident' letter on this arrived today. Confirmed that lots of streets will remain at 30. Mainly bus routes so looks like whining Lothian Buses got their way.
One of the reasons given for the 30 streets is that they "have higher average speeds". Er, why are they doing this again?
Plans are supposed to be on http://WWW.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.UK but I couldn't find them.
Well done Edinburgh. Opportunity. Missed. Better luck next time.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Letter through the door
"
Dear ResidentSOUTH CENTRAL EDINBURGH 20MPH LIMIT PILOT- INSTALLATION DETAILS
The majority of residential streets in an area bound between Morningside, the Meadows, Holyrood Park and
Blackford Hill will have a 2omph speed limit in place from Friday 23 March 2012. This is the launch date for
the South Central Edinburgh 2omph limit.
Due to the size of the 2omph limit area, new speed limit signs and poles will be going up across this area
from early February 2012 until the launch date, with disruption anticipated as being minimal. Please note
that the new speed limit does not come into effect until the launch on Friday 23 March 2012.
As detailed in previous correspondence, many of the main roads in the area will retain their existing 3omph
speed limit since they serve an important role in moving traffic through the area. In addition, to minimise
the level of signage and street clutter, a number of short cul-de-sacs adjoining main roads will be excluded
from the proposals.
Key benefits of a 2omph limit on the majority of South Central Edinburgh streets are:
SAFER STREETS AND THE LOCAL ENVIRONMENT
� 2omph limits dramatically decrease the chances of being struck by a vehicle
� if struck at 2omph or lower, a person stands a much greater chance of survival
� 2omph limits are shown to slow speeds on neighbouring (non-2omph) streets
� fewer vehicles cutting through residential streets - less traffic levels and noise
� 2omph streets often ease congestion which can lower journey times.
COMMUNITY BENEFITS
� traffic danger is the biggest concern of adults when it comes to allowing their children outside to play,
walk and cycle - why 2omph limits are so important!
� the 2omph limit enjoyed the support of over 75% of South Central Edinburgh residents and businesses
who responded to the consultation exercise
� 2omph limits encourage a greater sense of community by encouraging greater levels of street activity
- streets for people, not solely traffic
� active lifestyles - health and well-being encouraged through walking and cycling.
Further information can be found at http://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk. Streets Ahead Road Safety in
Edinburgh comprises the Council, Police, Fire Service and NHS Lothian, and aims to encourage and promote
safer streets across our city for all users.
Yours sincerely
Caroline Burwell
Road Safety Manager
FEB.2012"
Posted 13 years ago # -
Wonder if there'll be any reaction from people who had not hitherto heard of the proposals/plans for whom such a letter will be a massive surprise...
Posted 13 years ago # -
The workmen have started putting the signs up. Poles in at top of Chalmers Crescent this morning.
wingpig, most of my neighbours know I cycle, and my views on this - and to be fair, most are supportive - and pragmatic that, as we know, traffic at peak times doesnt even reach 20mph.
Posted 13 years ago # -
We've had 20mph limits in Duddingston most of the time since I moved there years back. Experience is that no-one drives at 20, but save for a few muppets people seem to drive appreciably slower than if the limit were 30.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The problem with the exisitng signs for 20 mph limits is that they are almost invisible when you are driving given the poor positioning, or they say 'Safer Routes to Schools' on them, leading some numpties to think they only apply during the school day. The average speed on Whitehouse Loan (20 mph limit) is 30 mph, outside a primary school. In my view that should be a six point offence (ie do it twice and you lose your license).
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think the idea is to rely on conscientious drivers slowing the rest, there appears to be no suggestion of policing these areas, or the pilot.
Perhaps the fittest amongst us should cruise at 20mph in the pilot zone to ensure compliance...
Last Hilly Tuesday we did manage this at stages!
Possibly the extent of these new 20 mph will help compliance - it seems plausible that average speeds decrease with distance into the zone, i.e. drivers only begin slowing once they've passed the signs.
We can but hope!
Robert
Posted 13 years ago # -
Launches tomorrow 9.30.
Posted 13 years ago # -
http://www.scotsman.com/news/summit-calls-for-new-safety-measures-to-protect-cyclists-1-2189627
The usual bike hating commences.Posted 13 years ago # -
Had my first driver overtake me while doing 20mph in the 20 zone last night - in my car...
Generally they just seem stunned, but it will be interesting going forward (especially on Causewayside, where it's too busy for them to pass).
Posted 13 years ago # -
Why oh why oh why couldn't they trial this in another area? Or even call it anything but South Central? Now I'm going to have NWA records stuck in my head, which is not good if you're prone to singing to yourself and work surrounded by kids.
cf: Rage Against the Machine's Christmas #1 win.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Or maybe Ice T (OG).
Posted 13 years ago # -
I can't understand the Police attitude of intending to turn a blind eye to speeding in this zone. They are entrusted to uphold the law. Surely some prosecutions of speeding drivers and points & fines would drive the message home. If they realise it's not going to be enforced, then we are back at square one, surely ?
Posted 13 years ago # -
True but the majority of drivers will slow down for the 20 whether they agree or not this will slow the whiners with out the police having to to do anything. In reality the police do very little in the way of speed enforcement the threat is enough for the few the fact its a rule is enough for the majority.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I'm not entirely sure how L&B is run. But perhaps their head policepersons - the ones with a lot of lace on their caps - get to pick and choose which laws they enforce? So if they don't like certain laws - like the ones making them target "otherwise law-abiding motorists" then they get to opt out.
Well, at least that's what it feels like to an outside observer.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Shoplifters are otherwise law-abiding customers...
I'm in favour of strict liability for civil cases, although I see enough merit in the arguments against it that I'm wavery on criminal, but if the driver is speeding, those objections evaporate. Even if the finest aren't enforcing it, I can imagine people being more careful about their speed if they knew 21mph meant that the burden of proof had just shifted to them.
Then again, right now I'm imagining Anth being accelerated to very close the speed of light and being collided with a box of frogs sitting on blacmange on a tiger wearing a David Milliband mask to see if the forces of insanity and tweed-clad bike poetry turn out to be same thing at sufficiently high energy levels, so maybe that's no measure.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Think once think twice think don't drive your car on the pavement.... http://youtu.be/aiVuHEv2VZ4
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yes, but the problem is it can be hard to tell if a car is doing 20, 21 or perhaps even an illegal 30. I wonder if the limit should have been set lower still. IN that way a car is either crawling along OR it's illegal.
Should we bombard the Police with the numbers of speeding cars during this trial, sort of "pester power" ?Posted 13 years ago # -
"20, or perhaps an illegal 21 or 30", you meant? :)
I would have thought it would be more effective to bombard them with supportive messages about how much better the streets are, so they're more likely to co-operate than obstruct future/extended trials on the grounds of "widespread public disatisfaction".
A better way to think of this is- speeds are not really enforced within the city, so we can either have 30mph streets or 20mph zones, and nobody will be prosecuted whatever they do. I prefer the latter case by far.
Posted 13 years ago # -
20 mph zone launch in Marchmont by LaidBackBikes, on FlickrChildren from both Sciennes and James Gillespie Primary turned up. Pastures Cafe did a good trade. Some forumers were still there when I left.
Posted 13 years ago # -
You can lead a forumer to tea and cakes, but you can't make it leave
Posted 13 years ago # -
This is all excellent news. However, I can't see how it will be taken seriously, and abided by, if there is no "teeth" to it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
OK if we take a softly ,softly approach we will see, I hope, this pilot rolled out to cover all Edinburgh roads & streets. However, will it not be a pyrrhic victory if we are "seen" to get what we want, BUT there is NO enforcement ?
Posted 13 years ago # -
I also worry that car drivers will complain or claim ignorance of changing speed limits ,due to the segmented nature of the new limit. 40 changing to 30 then 20 than back to 30 etc etc, this may give them some "slack" in the eyes of some. I only hope that this is just the beginning, and we can get widespread banning of motorised vehicles in huge swathes of Edinburgh
Posted 13 years ago # -
Narrowing the streets with segregated cycle paths would slow them down a bit.
Posted 13 years ago # -
As Dave said - they have never (cameras aside) really enforced the 30 limit in town - so I am not getting too excited about non/enforcing 20mph.
They are relying on human nature, and that most people dont want to be seen to be breaking the law - the wisdom being that people usually travel slower in 20mph signed areas than 30/40/60 etc.
These things dont always work in practice - but this is a start (and its as much as we were ever going to get unfortunately), and if it makes a few people start to slow down, we can build from that.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I still can't understand why it is a pilot. 20mph zones are hardly novel.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's possibly a legal requirement (to pilot something affecting so many streets and properties)?
Of course it's also raw cunning, because people are less likely to object to a pilot, and it's much easier to justify making a pilot which hasn't been a disaster permanent versus an unproven idea which may be attacked as a potential disaster...
Posted 13 years ago # -
The Chief Constable is provided with resources and held to account (at the moment, prior to reform) by the Lothian and Borders Police Board http://www.lothianandborderspoliceboard.co.uk/
That's who to speak to if you want them to do something different.
Posted 13 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
