Am putting together a poll
option only seems to come up AFTER first post!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
CCE Members' attitudes
(19 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Well, someone needs to do a reply :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Mmm
I thought you could do a poll on here with multiple questions - need a better option - ?
Posted 12 years ago # -
If there is a vehicle sat in the ASL and it would be the safest option to be infront of them - e.g. HGVs queued around or cars indicating to turn left - then absolutely.
I can't think of any other instances (either on my bike or in my car) in which I'd purposefully sit infront of the white line other than where safety is my primary concern.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I was a bit dopey on way home yesterday and twice crossed the line before stopping - however I did unclip and reverse a few feet......
Posted 12 years ago # -
If I watch a car roll in to the ASL long after the light is red then the devil on my shoulder says "get in front, go, go, go!" Even if I'm not going that way.
Posted 12 years ago # -
chdot - a good effort but you are let down by the limitations of the polling software, I could vote for all three depending on circumstances. If you fancy I could rustle up a short online survey for you (might have to wait till this evening though!)
Posted 12 years ago # -
My favourite technique at some locations is to stay outside the ASL and stop at the car stop line first. Then move forward once the traffic behind has stopped.
Maybe that's a bad thing .. obeying the wrong stop line? I don't do it all the time but sometimes if a car is already sitting in it I give that car a 'unique' breathing space as if it was a bike...
It's an inverse respect thing...
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Morningsider
Thanks
You CAN vote for all options. (Not sure that's logical in this case!!)
"If you fancy I could rustle up a short online survey for you (might have to wait till this evening though!)"
Thanks, but if you know of a good on-line survey form/service.
BUT on here you have to sign in which is a big advantage.
Think I'l just ask a few separate questions - over time.
There's a reason for the question(s) which will emerge...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Unless you go into the gutter lane bit it's actually mandatory to stop at the *first* white line. Needless to say this might be quite a detour if you are, say, in the right turn lane for Queen St going north on Hanover.
You could even argue it would be actively dangerous (say the light changes while you're going up the inside of the left turn lane to the ASL, but you have to get right across two traffic streams to the right lane?)
In attempting to ask what I think the poll was asking - I don't stop over the bike white line at all, except in the case where I get to the front and find a vehicle in it. In this case I will almost always make a faux ASL for myself in the pedestrian crossing.
At the end of the day, nobody has ever died from negotiating a stationary bike in a pedestrian crossing, whereas a lot of people are crushed by inattentive drivers at junctions. Out in front = all the win.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I don't over take to get to the front unless I'm in a long queue of traffic, like Queensferry Road near Barnton Junction. Otherwise (3-4) cars or less I'm happy to sit in the traffic mid lane and travel through with everyone else. I don't like to continue the misconception of some drivers that cyclist ignore and flowt the traffic laws by sitting forward of the stop line, running Red lights or cycling on pavements.
(I only cycle on the pavement when in my home town with my 4 years old, as he always wants toi be like dad and cycle on the road), plus Dalgety bay has some good cycle paths running along the pavements.
Posted 12 years ago # -
In my opinion the law should be changed to that cyclists can legally enter the ASL area by crossing the 1st stop line. Everyone does this anyway, probably no one knows about that rule, and I can't see anyone being stopped/arressted/cautioned for doing this.
I'm sure there is a good technical / practical reason for it being this way. Anyone know?
I often find cars are half in/ half out the ASL area, although I reckon this is due to car drivers almost universally not knowing how long their bonnet is and stopping a metre or two further back than they think they are.
Witness this problem also in parallel parking bays where cars annoyingly leave hald a car length at the end of the parking area.
Posted 12 years ago # -
L&B Police car in ASL yesterday at Gilmore Place....
Posted 12 years ago # -
Okay - I have voted for all three, here's why:
Never cross the line - my "ideal world" position. This is the law and what I try to do when safe.
Go in-front when vehicle in ASL: Normally I would wait behind but there may be occasions where it is safer to move in front, e.g. stuck between two vehicles that have pulled up beside you.
Safer at some junctions: Again I would normally wait in line, but there may be occasions where it is safer to move in front, e.g. lights at the bottom of a hill where you need a head start to get up to speed.
I always try and obey the law. I wouldn't cycle straight through a red light but I where necessary I will act to protect my own neck.
SRD - paragraph 178 of the Highway Code states:
"Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows."
Nice get out for any driver stopped in the cycle reservoir.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Nice get out for any driver stopped in the cycle reservoir."
Well it does happen, particularly when turning right.
One thing that annoys me about the highway code is that is assumes a utopian bliss of near empty roads. It doesn't really provide any advice for dealing with heavily clogged streets. In fact, I think that is a massive failing of the highway code.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Dave Crampton - I also wait behind a couple of cars (or even quite a few cars). I generally only bother to filter up if it will be a significant advantage (i.e. gain me one full cycle of the lights at this or a future junction).
However, the question was about "what you actually do at the ASL", so in my case I have to admit, when I do get there and find a car in it, I don't wait in the oncoming lane (or gutter, depending), but rather move forwards.
I don't think the opinion of drivers is significant in the way you suggest. We're an outgroup, and one of the features of an outgroup is that it is intrinsically hated (so if nobody ever went across an ASL, it would simply be the next thing on the list. Being slower than a car, or faster, or paying less per mile to be on the road, ultimately).
YMMV, of course. But that's how I see it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Indeed, unless you actually see the driver head into the ASL while the light is red then they could, quite rightly, be stopped there.
Has happened with me driving. As cb says, if you're in slow moving traffic, and it's clear that the traffic is moving to clear the junction, then you can pass the first line and find the lights changing, so stop for the second line.
Not that that's how the majority end up in there of course...
Posted 12 years ago # -
I would always filter to the front of the traffic whether there is an ASL or not .
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wonder if by persistently stayed out of ASLs but in centre of lane in front of the traffic if I could be disliked more by all road users - including cyclists? ;-)
It's a kind of equality you know...!
I often slow entering ASLs to let pedestrians go across as it's a kind of dead zone.
Also useful to increase red time at lights - ie cars have to run two stop lines on red if they RLJ.
Posted 12 years ago #
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