With where the particular streets were I would estimate none.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Today's rubbish driving...
(11334 posts)- Started 13 years ago by Stepdoh
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Posted 8 years ago #
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As a result Prentice Westwood said they can't identify the driver
Sorry to hear that algo.
I wrote to Prentice Westwood after I spotted one of their drivers using a mobile while driving a school bus (and plenty of kids walking on the pavement nearby). This was shortly after the Glasgow bin lorry crash, so fresh in the mind the devastation that can be caused by drivers not properly in control of heavy vehicles.
They didn't respond...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@edd1e_h that's rubbish not to respond... nice one for letting them know though - I hope the drivers got a general message about it at least.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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Rubbish driving on Leith Street earlier this evening. Man in a big black SUV-type thing turns left into the road leading to the Omni carpark without slowing, missing me by a couple of feet at most. When I raise my hand, he winds down his window and asks "Where's the green man??"
I may have called him a bad name. Justifiable, I think, given that those lights haven't been working for months. Numpty.
(To be fair, I wasn't paying much attention, but then again, I was crossing at roughly the same time as a couple of other peds, so it could have been worse!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Erob In Germany, this behaviour would not just be careless driving but could possibly be coercion according to the criminal code paragraph 240 (http://www.verkehrslexikon.de/Texte/Rspr2336.php) which can land the driver in jail.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Erob, I don't understand what his problem was?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Where's the green man??"
I have a feeling that for UK pedestrians, men*, red or green, are actually advisory.
* Hmph.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Lorretto School minibus, displayed his displeasure at having me slow his progress on Portobello High Street by sitting right on my tail.
Finally, after a maybe ten seconds, got bored and forced/squeezed past anyway.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@urchaidh - well I won't be selling my vital organs to send my kids there then.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Erob - watched this without sound (can't seem to get sound on YT at work for some reason?!) - what is the driver's problem? Do they have a chat with you?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Big Tesco lorry passing me scarily close.
Feel that it was somehow my fault because I hadn't looked back and so didn't know the lorry was there and so hadn't been able to interact with the driver at all.Posted 8 years ago # -
definitely not your fault fimm. The law is quite clear that the vehicle behind is always responsible for avoiding the one in front.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Erob, I don't understand what his problem was?"
"what is the driver's problem?"
Watched without sound as well, so don't know what the conversation was, but I'll take a stab at turning in in front of him when there wasn't (in the driver's opinion) space to do so.
Pretty sure at the point the car is first visible they're not indicating to turn into that street (they are when making the turn, as can be seen from the rear facing).
It was one of those gaps that I think is touch-and-go. I'd have gone into that (especially if there had been no indication to suggest the driver was going that way). But hell, even if it was a 'little' tight, the reaction (close pass, looked like deliberate brake testing, haring off, stopping in the middle of the road) is somewhat out of proportion.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Sounds doesn't really help as most of the conversation is obscured by the sound of other car engines.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"... conversation is obscured by the sound of other car engines."
An aspect of motorised vehicles that is often overlooked - but I find walking round the road south of Arthur's Seat an utter pain. I want to hear the birds, to give an idea of where to look and point the camera, but have it constantly drowned out by cars going past. It annoys me so much I just don't go there anymore.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Min, me either, that's why I shouted for him to come back.
@newtoit, after he slows down infront of me I can see him in the mirror and he shouts "something something f'ing idiot" and speeds off.
Thoroughly confused, I shout and beckon for him to come back. He waits, I come alongside and he rants about how I pulled infront of him and "it's an accident and a recipe for getting yourself f'ing killed" followed by more name calling and speeding off.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@erob - 50:50 one that. I would have gone for the gap like you did. Beats waiting in the middle of the junction with traffic coming from behind which my risk assessment brain module thinks is more dangerous.
Posted 8 years ago # -
On Inverkeithing High street 4 cars overtook me as I went past a 20mph speed camera/monitoring screen. Their speeds, 30, 30 34 and 30.
Would 34 would be 6 points if it is > 10mph difference?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@erob - like everything that's a judgement - I may well have gone for that too for the same reasons as @earthowned says, but I'm not as quick as you. I don't think you did anything wrong, but It doesn't really matter if it was a lack of judgement though; to punish what he obviously thought of as something reckless on your part by driving aggressively and confronting you really demonstrates exactly the dangerous state of mind some drivers seem to be in - completely disconnected from rationality or empathy.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think one of the key things here is that I doubt he'd have reacted in the same way to another driver doing that.
He may have tooted the horn, but direct confrontation is unlikely (and more difficult - cyclists are an easy target, though sounds like he stopped because you shouted at him to do so?).
Posted 8 years ago # -
@WC, the stop further down the road was after I asked him to stop, following the initial slowing/shouting/speeding off.
@algo, exactly. After I'd started moving I realised he'd come around the corner faster than I'd initially thought so kicked a bit harder and cut the angle which got me enough space. Had I not done that, all he would've had to do was brake a little.
I stand by what I said in the video, the only way he would've hit me is if he'd continued to accelerate into me.
Posted 8 years ago # -
These sports cam videos don't give a great perspective, but I don't think I'd have made that cut. I'd see it as an unnecessary risk. I don't agree either that "going" was less of a risk than "staying"
None of that excuses the car driver's aggressive, cretinous and should be illegal behavior though.
FYI - no sound here either!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Erob I really can't see anything wrong with your cycling there. It appears to me that the driver of the black car had just turned sharp left and was then accelerating from a slow initial speed towards you as you turned right. He was clearly able to see you ahead so would have been able to reduce the acceleration of his car accordingly if he had actually chosen to do so. Bit of a strange situation.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I don't think the car should had been forced to slow down. I don't like cars cutting across me, forcing me to slow down.
It's not clear thats what happened, but if it was, then patience would have been the better course of action IMHO.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ECT I admit the gap was a bit tight. As @earthowned put it "50:50". But it was 50:50 on him having to brake, had my own measures not been sufficient. It wasn't 50:50 on a collision, or even requiring an emergency stop.
People misjudge speed every day. You just slow down to account for it. All part of sharing the road.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"People misjudge speed every day. You just slow down to account for it."
Would that, in practice, not mean slowing down on the bike every single time you come to a side street with a car waiting to turn into the road in case it misjudges your speed, as well as creating a psychological state in those waiting to turn out that anyone coming along the road will be slowing down in case the turner-outer misjudges their speed making it more likely that they will pull out?
"it was 50:50 on him having to brake, had my own measures not been sufficient. It wasn't 50:50 on a collision"
Hmmm. I think it wasn't 50:50 on him having to brake if he wasn't turning into the same street, but 100% on him having to brake if he was, given relative acceleration, narrowing on the junction for the crossing, parked cars etc.
Like I say, I think I would have made the turn in the same way in that specific scenario, but I'm not sure I'd ride thinking it doesn't matter if I force people to brake with my actions (whether I'm in a car or on my bike, and whether the other person is on their bike or in a car).
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hmm. I wouldn't have done that, partially because my risk-assessment module always pipes up "what if the chain snaps/crank breaks?" and partially because it's that junction, albeit from a different direction.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think we're risking judging @erob by unrealistic standards (some will tell me that attitude excuses bad driving but there are big differences). It is difficult from the clip to get a full idea of perspective and speed, but I feel confident in saying that the bike right turn was quite legitimate if the car had been driven anywhere on the spectrum of acceptable. It wasn't. He accelerated excessively in the short stretch before his left turn. Having seen this, in mid-manoeuvre, @erob took action and cleared the junction in good time; the rear camera shows @erob was well into the road before the driver entered it. I suspect the driver just wanted to turn as fast as possible, almost certainly breaking the limit, and was then annoyed that he had to overtake a bike. @erob, if I were you I would just leave the thread now and put the incident down to another jackass driver who couldn't stand not being in front.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just to clarify that my reading is that the driver would only have had to modulate acceleration in that situation as I have seen it, although the wide angle lens may well be distorting things a little - I wasn't suggesting that anyone should be putting another in a position of having to brake to avoid a collision, unless of course they are failing to react to a traffic light which is changing to red, at which point I'll routinely start across the road prior to the green man appearing (but very ready to back out at short notice) if only to try and make them think.
Posted 8 years ago #
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