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Today's rubbish driving...

(11258 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Stepdoh
  • Latest reply from chdot
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  1. CocoShepherd
    Member

    Roundabout 1: I'm travelling straight on - 2nd exit. Driver overtakes me on the actual blooming roundabout only to cut across and take the first exit. Slammed on the anchors and thought, you know, it happens, they could be late or they could be much more important than little old peasant me on my bike.

    Roundabout 2: exact same thing happens with a second very important person. But then I doubt myself and I wonder if my rear light and my front/rear flashing helmet light and my 1100 lumen front light are all working and if my high vis reflective backpack cover was obscured from view. Maybe I just wasn't visible enough.

    Roundabout 3: I'm turning right at the third exit and someone ploughs straight through coming the other way without hesitation. So OBVIOUSLY it's a visibility issue.

    But then I began to wonder whether actually, this morning, I was the very important person. The star of my own Truman Show, only it was more "Final Destination: On The Roundabout" than "Truman Show".

    Travel safe everyone.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  2. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    Actually hit by a car (again) last night at the foot of Leith Walk.

    Driver was doing a U-turn in the entrance to Crown Street (at Papa Johns) and didn't check properly before pulling out.

    My front wheel went into the front right wing of the car, I went over the handlebars / bonnet. Wheel is a write-off, the bike shop thinks that's all that's wrong but will check it over anyway. I'm remarkably unscathed, not a scratch on me. Strava says I was going at 17 mph at the time.

    The driver was extremely apologetic, he must have said "Oh god I'm so sorry" literally 100 times in the < 5 mins we were exchanging details. The driver also said "I'm so sorry, I didn't look" rather than "I didn't see you", so kudos to him for that. I was wearing a yellow fluorescent waistcoat, and had a bright, steady front light (visible in the video).

    Truncated video on Twitter, I'll upload the whole thing to YouTube once everything is sorted (With the driver's face / numberplate blurred, since he was absolutely mortified): https://twitter.com/Lollercake/status/1197666611064377345

    I didn't report it to 101 at the time, and I presume the driver didn't either, since he said he's happy to pay. If he changes his mind when the bill comes, then I'll report it, of course. I'll phone 101 tonight (when I have the number plate to hand) to see if I can report it just for statistical purposes - I've no desire to get the guy involved with the police assuming he has insurance, etc. The car shows taxed and MOT'd at least, and the driver never actually asked me not to report it or anything, so nothing suspicious in that regard.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    @EdinburghCycl

    That shows that if you (i.e. the driver in this case) apologise, keep calm and eat some humble pie, people will cut you some slack - it all depends on your reaction to the situation...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  4. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Glad to hear you are OK, EdinburghCycleCam

    U-turns must be the single most dangerous legal manoeuvre on the road. My wife had a car accident some time back with a black cab that u-turned in front of her with no indication. I quite often nearly get hit on my commute on S St David St by cars that u-turn from South to North presumably to get around the right turn into George St being buses, taxis and bikes only (and 50%+ of them then stand on the horn or shout abuse like it's my fault).

    And just last night I was behind a PHV in the straight ahead lane at the junction at the west end of Dundee St near Diggers. When the straight-on arrow appeared, the taxi pulled a u-ie (zero indication of course) around the cars waiting to turn right down Angle Park Terrace in order to head back along Dundee St. They were extremely lucky as left-turning traffic coming up APT would still have had a green light, and from where the taxi started the manoeuvre, they would have no view of approaching traffic.

    I really need to get a bar camera.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  5. neddie
    Member

    I'm pretty sure that U-turns are not legal on main roads unless you are a black cab...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  6. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @neddie not sure if you're being ironic! If not, no, I'm afraid not, only banned if there is a sign prohibiting it (and presumably a TRO of some kind).

    Posted 4 years ago #

  7. miak
    Member

    @edinburghcyc that looked painful

    Posted 4 years ago #

  8. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @miak - Surprisingly, I've only got a slightly sore elbow, and no sign of any bruises or anything. Apparently I'm Bruce Willis in Unbreakable.

    The bike needs new forks apparently, and the shop said if it was going through insurance, they'd declare it a write-off to be safe, since they can't be sure the frame is undamaged.

    I told the driver this, and they phoned me back and said some choice quotes:
    "It was £70 yesterday, it's £170 today, what's it going to be tomorrow?"
    "I can't afford £200 just before Christmas, I'm living on my friend's sofa and I've got two kids to feed. Can we call it £100?"
    "My mate fixes bikes, he can do it cheaper"

    I suggested that if he can't afford it, we could go through insurance, since that's what it's for:
    "Who's insurance?"
    "Well, yours"
    "No no no no no, I can't do insurance, that's do good to me - my ex partner pays the insurance and my bail conditions mean I can't talk to her"
    "I accepted the guilt at the time, but I don't think I should be paying all this - I was already in the road and you were all in black" (Video shows *I* was already in the road, I was wearing a hi-viz waistcoat and had a bright front light).

    The driver is now suggesting paying half today and half next month, I said I'm not going to ask for any money from him until I have the receipt (Which, understandably, the driver wants to see).

    Going to call 101 tonight to cover myself in any case, it's beginning to sound a lot like the driver isn't insured...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  9. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Police now @ECC. The driver commits an offence by not reporting it to police themselves within 24 hours BTW. I suggest you keep that info to yourself...

    Posted 4 years ago #

  10. jonty
    Member

    Infuriating, but such a familiar story. I'm actually not sure I've ever heard of a situation where the driver's been all nice by the roadside and hasn't gone back on it as soon as a bill for more than twenty quid is suggested. I'm going to make a mental note to alter my advice/actions in this situation to going straight for "sorry, this is going straight to the police and Cycle Law Scotland - if you have anything more to say it'll have to be via your insurer."

    Incidentally I think that should be your next step here - although note that Cycle Law Scotland will only offer advice about going directly to the insurer if you were completely uninjured in a crash. I would be totally unsurprised if the driver completely disappears once you have a receipt.

    To satisfy your curiosity in the meantime you might want to pay a few pounds for an insurance lookup here https://www.mib.org.uk/check-insurance-details/

    Posted 4 years ago #

  11. jonty
    Member

    Another observation on this and other previous situations - the instinct, whether it's out of politeness or self-reassurance, is to say "I'm sure I'm basically fine and so is my bike." This then leads to the motorist claiming "you said everything was fine at the roadside, and now you're saying you need a new bike [and a new hip]!"

    Perhaps a better line to take (in situations where the driver is being cooperative and nonthreatening) is "I can walk but I'm full of adrenaline, I'll go the doctor tomorrow" and "I'll need to have the frame checked, the bike might be a write-off, it cost me X hundred pounds". That way they can't say you ever claimed anything was OK. And with luck, if they're planning on being outraged that bike repair costs more than a tenner, they might then make that clear thus preventing wasted time and effort attempting to deal with them directly.

    (@ECC: I hope it's clear, but worth noting I'm not trying to say 'here's what you should have done' but instead trying to think about changes I might make/advise others make to planned behaviour in the event of being involved in another collision in light of your experience. I wish you the best of luck in obtaining a speedy and satisfactory resolution.)

    Posted 4 years ago #

  12. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @jonty - "I would be totally unsurprised if the driver completely disappears once you have a receipt."
    Yep, that's my worry as well. Though he told me where he works (assuming he was telling the truth).

    Planning to call 101 tonight to report it, to be on the safe side.

    EDIT: And yeah, the driver asked at the time how much I thought it'd be, and I said "If it's just the wheel, then probably about £50, but I'll need to get the bike checked". I did say I was completely uninjured (and still am), but you're right - I should really have said that I don't know yet.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  13. Morningsider
    Member

    Nothing good will come from trying to deal with this yourself. Speak to the police and Cycle Law Scotland as soon as possible - right now if you can.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  14. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @ECC any sign of takeaway delivery food in the vehicle? Given the slightly lost/'following a GPS' nature of the driving. Most drivers' insurance doesn't cover them for this type of moonlighting, and it's something the police seem to take seriously despite the apparent triviality.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  15. neddie
    Member

    No no no no no, I can't do insurance, that's do good to me - my ex partner pays the insurance and my...

    You can be sure he's not insured.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  16. wingpig
    Member

    999. Now. Wriggling when their adrenaline and guilt wear off is a bad sign.

    In the future, I'd sit there and call the police for any event which unseated me - there's always the chance that a breathalyser shows up something interesting and which the police might actually prosecute. They'd also presumably run the number through the DVLA and check it was on the road legally.
    My unobservant perpetrator in December 2013 initially made blame-accepting noises in front of the attending polices, but then went all quiet when faced with an actual bill, eventually forcing me to use askMID to get his insurance details to bypass him, for which the police incident reference was required.

    I didn't police the van which squashed my front wheel a couple of years ago but I did get a video of the man driving the van admitting his fault, his name and address and so on whilst standing in front of the liveried company van he presumably didn't want to be linked to an RTC.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  17. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @Murun Buchstansangur - Nope, he apparently works nearby, so I guess he was just doing a U-turn to go home. Didn't look like a delivery driver or anything like that.

    @neddie "my ex partner pays the insurance" - Yeah, that caused alarm bells to ring immediately. If he's not allowed to talk to her, why would she be paying the insurance?

    @wingpig - Considering I called 999 last time, when it was a hit and run where I hit my head hard on the road and can't be sure I didn't lose consciousness, and the police were too busy to attend, I doubt this would be 999-worthy.
    I checked the car last night on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ which shows it's MOT'd and taxed until next year, so there's that at least. He's still never said "please don't contact the police", but maybe that'd be too blatant for him to come out with.

    Like I said; I'll call 101 tonight so I at least have an incident number and so it's on record. They can check that the driver is insured. The only reason I'm not calling now is that I don't have the car registration or decent driver description to hand, and I'm lazy - this way I don't need to call up twice.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  18. CycleAlex
    Member

    You can check whether it's insured on https://www.askmid.com/ - £4.50 for a search.

    You can also get an instant result if you say it's your own vehicle but I have no idea of the legality of that.
    Just read you'll be calling 101 - ignore me!

    Posted 4 years ago #

  19. wingpig
    Member

    the instinct, whether it's out of politeness or self-reassurance, is to say "I'm sure I'm basically fine and so is my bike."

    My instinct has been to roll upright and shout a rude word very loudly, to get out of the way of further danger, alert the perpetrator and attract the attention of potential witnesses. I don't know if I'd be able to carry off a suggestion seen elsewhere of not getting up and demanding ambulances and police.
    The police took no further interest after giving me my reference number and asking the driver if he was willing to pay, but at least they breathalysed him.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  20. Snowy
    Member

    If the driver is over the limit, it invalidates their insurance. In that scenario, is there a risk that an insurance company would refuse to pay out for damage to a third party? You'd have to hope otherwise - perhaps someone has experience of this.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  21. acsimpson
    Member

    @ECC, adding my tuppence worth. If you speak to the perp again I would suggest mentioning that the bike shop is considering writing off the bike so the £200 is already a compromise.

    Although like others above I would probably cut them out the loop now. They had their chance and are now trying to wriggle out of it.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  22. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @acsimpson - Yeah, I mentioned that "if it was an insurance claim, they'd want to write the bike off", but didn't say what the value of the bike was (It was ~£800 new, ~4 years ago, so probably not a huge amount now). Hopefully he was just chancing it and still intends to pay up - maybe I'm being naïve.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  23. acsimpson
    Member

    Thinking a bit more about this I would also ensure that he pays the entire amount or nothing. Taking half the money would make things very complicated if he later doesn't pay.

    If you are happy waiting then you could give him until next month to save up but make sure he knows you want one payment.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  24. jonty
    Member

    There's no industry guideline for used bike pricing as there is with cars, so my understanding is that replacing with new is fairly standard - but I'm happy to be corrected.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  25. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @acsimpson - That's a good idea, I'll suggest that to him when I have the final figure. Thanks!

    Posted 4 years ago #

  26. acsimpson
    Member

    Also I'm not sure if there is a deadline for making an insurance claim (or uninsured driver claim through MIB). Make Sure you don't miss that waiting for him to pay.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  27. gembo
    Member

    @Edinburgh CycleCam

    is this the new bike paid for by the last pay out.?

    Hope you are ok and the rabbit foot still got ju ju left

    stay safe and alas you will have to get this to polis as the driver is at it

    Posted 4 years ago #

  28. jdanielp
    Member

    A fairly strange one the other night. As I cycled from along Gilmore Place between Lower Gilmore Place and the King's Theatre junction, a vehicle caught up behind me as I was taking primary to avoid parked cars and hooted once, in response to which I raised my right arm with a standard 'what are you hooting at me for' gesture, and then again a little afterwards while I was passing a bus at the stop before the junction, at which point I raised my left arm. I stopped in the ASZ and what turned out to be a private hire car pulled up in the ASZ to my left...

    I turned to stare at the driver, who wound their window down so I pointed out that they had just committed an offence by driving into the ASZ under a red light. This was ignored but they replied with something like "you'll get run over cycling like that." (It was fairly hard to hear because their and other engines were running and traffic was passing through the junction ahead of us). I asked them to repeat what they said and they said the same thing again, to which I replied that I was fairly confident that I wasn't going to be run over cycling like that unless it was by some kind of Rule 2 driver. Throughout this the driver remained unflustered although I was definitely showing varying levels of irritation...

    The driver then randomly complimented my bike (I was on my Genesis MTB) but didn't wheel out the "I'm a cyclist too" line. I decided to ask if they were a cyclist and they replied that yes, there indeed they were. I asked what kind of bikes they rode? MTB - a Giant brand. Do you take it down to Glentress? Yes, I'm going down this weekend in fact. So why did you behave so agressively to a cyclist on the road? I was just messing with you... I have to say that this response took me by surprise and I didn't really know what to say to that. The lights then went green anyway so we both pulled away and the driver wished me well and I automatically replied "you too"...

    Whilst what the driver said to me initially sounded like a threat, I now wonder if they were expressing genuine concern for my assertive cycling which to them seemed like I was putting myself in danger, and maybe they just wanted to talk to somebody because they were bored? It doesn't excuse the hooting (although I wasn't aware that they were all that close behind me at that time and they didn't try to overtake dangerously) or driving into the ASZ, but it was an oddly humanising experience overall.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  29. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @Snowy in regard to your question, my understanding is that the insurance company has to pay out to injured/damaged third parties. They are entitled to sue their drunk client for their losses however

    Posted 4 years ago #

  30. Frenchy
    Member

    Also I'm not sure if there is a deadline for making an insurance claim

    It might be insurance company-dependent, but I was told by my insurance company that I have 12 months to file a claim.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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