CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

  1. gembo
    Member

    Driver who destroyed grangemouth electricity sub station knocking out power to 300 homes found guilty of VERY SERIOUS careless driving. Though the 9 month ban and 450 pound fine seems same as any other careless driving punishment. Defence solicitor said Look, he just clipped the kerb like anyone could and unfortunately this meant he destroyed a power station.

    I will make sure i do not ever again clip the kerb, i mean anyone could do that. Given that this will lead to power station destruction

    Also of note the taxi driver who appeared to be illegally picking up fares (at the airport) according to chief exec of the airport gets off Scot Free by citing the odd behaviour of the CEO which caused the taxi driver to panic, drive at the CEO, then drive away calling the CEO a p@#$5 (word is in King James Bible and quoted in title of great Nick Cave covers album). Scot Free - that i the sort of lawyer Magnatom needs.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. algo
    Member

    Yet again outside the EYM on Chalmer's Street - lots of cars occupying the space outside clearly on zigzags saying no parking, keep clear. I was leaving with 3 kids waiting for a chance to turn right and another car wanting to occupy the space we were in and impatiently ushering us to go when it clearly wasn't safe. This whole situation is mad.

    I asked the parking attendant who was ticketing people with out of date tickets in a parking bay and he said the restriction didn't apply on the weekend. Is this true? Does anyone know who I should contact to find out if this could possibly be changed? The place is still functioning as a school even though it's a Saturday.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Frenchy
    Member

    I asked the parking attendant who was ticketing people with out of date tickets in a parking bay and he said the restriction didn't apply on the weekend

    This certainly isn't mentioned in the council's Parking enforcement protocol (p25):
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/488646/response/1180140/attach/3/19185%20Parking%20Enforcement%20Protocol.pdf

    Might be worth sending an email to parking@edinburgh.gov.uk asking for clarification.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. algo
    Member

    Thanks a lot @Frenchy

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I dropped madame off at the station at stupid o'clock. Raining and dark and if you didn't know the advisory cycle lanes existed you would never see them. Most road markings invisible in fact. Folk piling up behind me as I drove at 22.5mph.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I suppose it barely counts, but a 13 tonne truck driving off the pedestrianised zone of the Kirkgate and straight over the pedestrian crossing.

    I'd love to see the risk assessment for that operation.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. slowcoach
    Member

    @algo, @Frenchy: School Keep Clear zig-zags need plates saying when the restrictions are in force to be mandatory (vehicles must not stop, with some exceptions), and they are only advisory (vehicles should not stop) without those plates. But since in Edinburgh the council has put single yellow lines as well as the zig-zags then the central zone restriction is (probably?) the one being enforced (rather than school keep clear). The signs with days and times for this will be at the entries to the zone, and in the central zone these do include Saturdays, so I'd think the attendant was mistaken.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Frenchy
    Member

    @slowcoach - thanks, you just reminded me that I'd been meaning to post that I'd noticed the markings at Gilmerton PS have a time plate saying "Monday-Friday 8am-4pm".

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. neddie
    Member

    School Keep Clear zig-zags need plates...

    The levels of complexity they go to, just to accommodate private motor vehicles in our city. Madness.

    Or is it levels of obfuscation, so that no one's ever sure enough to punish an entitled motorist?

    Imagine if all that energy was spent on people-friendly places...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. gembo
    Member

    @neddie - pity the poor commuters, the ones destroying the planet.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. unhurt
    Member

    Train heading for Alness parallel to road, giving me a great view into a silver SUV driven by a young man holding a phone to his ear, then holding it in front of his face/the steering wheel, then taking hos other hand off the steering wheel to do stuff on the screen.

    Great stuff. I see the message about distracted driving has really sunk in.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. fimm
    Member

    Yesterday's rubbish shouting at a cyclist:
    "... lane you <rule2>" from someone in a black car. Their complete interaction with me had been: wait behind me at a red light, follow me round a corner and wait behind me at another red light. At the point I got shouted at they were going straight on and I was turning right (Torphicen Place to Morrison Street). In what way did my presence on the road disrupt their journey?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    PJ11 WTF tries to overtake me in the right-turn only lane top of Minto Street. I am in a strong primary in the straight-ahead lane and giving it laldy. I hear the engine gunned and know they think I'll pull in but I won't.

    Only ABS prevented them running into the queue of right-turners. Hard on the anchors.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    I so nearly lost my zen at the Codfather junction tonight beneath the Bonnie Prince CHARLIE aqueduct. Every few years a very bad driver accelerates from the left turning lane and does not turn left but goes straight ahead which is very dangerous to the cyclist going straight ahead from the right hand lane. Two factors stopped me losing my zen. The fast cyclist from long stone who confirmed my opinion of unbelievable driving and the fact I could not catch the fecker. He was flooring it to get away.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    I was in court today as a witness in a charge of dangerous driving against the van driver who, in November 2018, was speeding through Holyrood Park in a commercial vehicle, overtook me close to a roundabout, then undertook me, swerved into me, knocked my off my bike, and then left the scene. About 45 minutes later, he handed himself in at Gayfield police station. I'm pretty sure my original account is in this thread, but I'm too lazy to dig it up.

    Today he was found not guilty on a technicality.

    When he handed himself in to Gayfield, the police got him to fill in a "172 form", which I gather is the form identifying him as the driver. The police did not however ask him for any form of identification.

    At the time, I saw his face for less than a second at the time, and as I told police when I gave my statement, and as I said today - I can give a description of the driver, and the man sitting in the dock fits that description, but I can't say for certain, under oath that they are the same person.

    Because of that, the defence lawyer argued that the person called John Smith (obviously not his real name, but no reason to name him) who handed himself in at Gayfield may not be the same person called John Smith who was then charged by police and who is in court today.
    The judge agreed that because there was no proof that they were the same person, and because my "resemblance identifcation" isn't sufficient, that he can't be charged, so was found not guilty.

    Yet another instance where I've been let down by the police, it seems.

    On the plus side, if he hadn't handed himself in to Gayfield, I wouldn't have been able to claim damages to my bike and equipment from his insurance - which is separate from the criminal case, so they can't demand that money back now he's been found not guilty. Maybe this is just karma for him.

    I spoke to him outside the court and shook his hand and said "No hard feelings", and he muttered similar sentiments. I think he realised how lucky he was to get off on a technicality - his lawyer's angle up until she came upon that was just to accuse everyone (including the police) of lying, so I doubt he'd have got away with it, had it gone further.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    Was he pleading not guilty? Despite handing himself in?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    That is a complete nonsense ECC. The usual method of Section 172 identification for eg speeding is for the police to send out a form by post to the registered keeper of the vehicle, who is supposed to respond with the name and address of whoever was driving, who then is sent their own form which they must sign to confirm they were driving. The signature alone serves as identification, no license or photo ID required.

    I would suggest that someone turning up at a police station within 45 minutes of an incident and signing the 172 form is much stronger evidence than the above postal process. Was the form signed at the time? If so and ‘John Smith’ is denying it’s his signature, it sounds like a Perverting the Course of Justice investigation by the police is in order. Are you taking it further?

    Unfortunately Procurator Fiscal deputes are useless in my experience (jury/witness). As soon as the defence bring up anything unexpected, they defecate their breeks, which usually results in the case being dropped.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    @gembo I would assume so. Probably hoping to get dangerous driving demoted to careless.

    @Murun Buchstansangur - Yup, it's ridiculous. "Was the form signed at the time?" I presume so, I don't actually know / the police witness wasn't asked.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    "one driver caught going nearly three times the speed limit"
    A semi-regular occurrence on Queen's Drive...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    A host of rubbish driving today, all in the space of 45 minutes.

    First, heading East to Jock's Lodge, I was honked at here: https://goo.gl/maps/ZubA3cYupfi4APg5A. I turned around to look at the driver, who was pointing at the cycle lane (arguably it's a filter lane, it only goes to the ASL). I was in primary, because I was going straight on at the traffic light (which was red), and there's roadworks on the inside lane on Portobello Road.
    I stopped behind the traffic (there were about 4 cars in front), turned around and told the driver that I was going straight ahead. They said "It doesn't matter, use the cycle lane." I said "There's roadworks on the inside lane up ahead, I can't use the cycle lane to go straight on". He said "Then you stick your arm out and wait for a space". He then ranted about me being "inconsiderate" - which I thought was ironic, considering he was the sole occupant of a large car taking up far more space than I was, and he was the one who decided to inappropriately use his horn. I gave up trying to argue with him, and continued where I was.

    Then a classic MGIF approaching another red light here: https://goo.gl/maps/n1GhYtAqDLry6LkY9 - I was catching up with the car in front, who was also approaching the red light, but the driver behind decided to try and overtake me anyway. Because I'm stubborn, I didn't haul on the brakes, and instead coasted along at the same speed as the car in front, meaning the "overtaking" driver ended up straddling the centre line at the red light, behind 2 or 3 cars.

    Here: https://goo.gl/maps/rHmpvhiYwTN622aV7 some schoolkids were being kids, and throwing chips at each other. One of them threw a chip at the car in front of me, the driver of whom was on her phone, with the phone pressed to her ear. She looked at the kids and pointed at the phone, as if to say "Look, I'm on the phone". I went to her passenger window and said "Do you want to put the phone away while you're driving?" the driver gave me two fingers, and I pointed at my camera. They they opened the passenger door and said "They're throwing chips at the car!". I told her they're free to do that as much as they like, it's no excuse for her to be illegally using her phone while driving. The kids loved that. She said she wasn't on the phone, and showed me the screen - which was on, but not on a call. The lights changed, I closed her door for her (she couldn't reach it herself), and then we moved off.

    Outside the Playhouse, I spotted a police officer walking towards the HGV parked on the pavement and cycle lane, and laughed with glee. My glee was short-lived however, when he went into Habana instead. I waited for 2-3 minutes for him to come out, and when he did, I asked if he was doing anything about the HGV, or if that was unrelated. Conversation followed:
    "Nah, it was something else. What about the HGV? Is it because he's blocking the cycle lane?"
    "No, the cycle lane isn't open - it's the fact that he's on the pavement and shouldn't be - it's illegal for him to be stopped there for any reason except being asked to be there by the police. There's a loading lane around the back, and a temporary loading bay there." *gesturing at the temporary loading bay near CC Blooms*
    "Ah right. They've been asked not to do deliveries at rush hour, so they don't block the traffic"
    "Regardless, he should be using the loading bay - the pavement isn't built to handle multi-tonne vehicles driving on it, this is how they get damaged."
    "Alright, I'll have a word."
    "Thanks!"

    Finally, I was cycling down Queen's Drive at around 25 mph, keeping up with the car in front, with about 3 car lengths between me and them, and the driver behind decided to overtake me. I shouted an expletive, then overtook them, placing myself back behind the car I was originally following (Which I know I shouldn't have done, but I get wound up about people doing that). The driver behind laid on the horn, so I stopped at the roundabout at the bottom of Queen's Drive, a few seconds later. I turned around and politely explained what the speed limit in the park is, and how when I'm doing the speed limit, and so is the car in front, that he doesn't break the speed limit to overtake me into a space that doesn't exist. Throughout this, the driver was staring out their window, ignoring me. Eventually they got fed up, waved their hands in the air and then laid on the horn. I punched the bonnet of the car, and the driver got out, clearly aggressively, and shouted "COME HERE" to me. I refused, and cycled off as he made a lunge for my rear wheel with his foot - since the police have previously told me that if there's any prior interaction between me and a driver, that the driver is free to damage my bike without consequence (yes, really). The driver then followed me down Holyrood Gait and Holyrood Road, where I cycled into Dumbiedykes Road and along some paths into what turned out to be a dead end, in order to lose the driver (which thankfully worked).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. CocoShepherd
    Member

    33 year old man dies after being hit by car.

    This is horrendous.

    Edit: BBC report

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. edinburgh87
    Member

    The myriad clowns completely blocking Telford Rd in both directions trying to turn right into or leave McDonald's drive thru, which was completely rammed with cars. If there was every one image to sum up our health and transport crises that would be it

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Cars u-turning around the traffic island/keep left at Lauriston Place into Forrest Rd are at epidemic proportions. Have seen multiple attempt it each morning this week, most culminating in revvy/wheelspinny reversing & takeoff. Can't be long before some poor pedestrian or cyclist pays the price.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. jonty
    Member

    Agreed - though on the other hand it is absolutely delightful not being merged into every morning by drivers who think you're running a red light.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Murun Buchstansangur: It probably doesn't help that Google Maps is blissfully unaware of the lane closure and still tries to send people that way. (I would hope that locals who regularly go that way are aware of the closure by now and have altered their routes accordingly.)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Yet again another dick of a driver failing to give way on Clermiston Drive from a side road this morning. The car just in front of me was turning left into the street he was coming out of so it was just a case of GTF cyclist I'm coming out.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. fimm
    Member

    Car being driven somewhat too close to the back of the car Mr fimm was driving along the motorway in rubbish conditions (lots of surface water and spray) on Saturday. When Mr fimm had finished his maneuver and pulled in the driver sped off. Not very notable except it was a marked police car. No lights or anything. I'm not so bothered about the breaking of the speed limit, but the driving too close to the vehicle in front was poor.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. Stickman
    Member

    For <reasons> I had to drive this morning. Stopped for a red light at a pedestrian crossing; car coming the other way blazed through. Big group of kids waiting to cross. Also, being undertaken by a CityCabs taxi in a bus lane despite me doing the speed limit.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. ARobComp
    Member

    Hit by a large urban tractor this morning.

    Was travelling towards the canal on Craiglockhart Road and approaching the junction with Craiglockhart Park here:

    See streetview

    I was positioned on the white chevron showing give way and stationary when a large kia cut the corner hugely. I managed to pull my bike backwards as much as possible so the car only caught my front wheel rather than completely flattening me. However the wheel still ended up stuck in the wheel arch of the vehicle

    I shouted rather angrily and may have included some swears. The owner of the car pulled it over, and was incredibly concerned about me. She genuinely had not seen me she said, but based on the fact I'm enormous and have running lights on the bike I suspect what she means is she looked some time before, then checked the oncoming traffic and I was hidden behind the windscreen frame of the vehicle.

    It doesn't excuse the fact that she cut the corner by about a meter and a half which is why she would have flattened me if I'd not pulled back.

    She gave her details and I got a video of her basically apologising and saying she had no idea she had cut the corner. No idea if that's enough but she has admitted liability on the video.

    Front wheel of the Vanmoof now very wonky - could roll it home - and I've reached out to the manufacturers to understand what I should do to maintain my warranty on the bike bearing in mind the front wheel mounts the motor and is subject to torque.

    Overall very frustrated. Hopefully she will be more careful in future. I hope I didn't teach her kids too many bad words.

    *Edit* forgot to mention - at one point she did say "I'm not sure if I didn't see you because you are wearing so many dark clothes". I had a black jacket on, shorts, a buff and a flat cap as I'm on my upright dutch bike. I pointed out to her that if she hadn't cut the corner we'd not be in the situation, however interesting how quickly her mind jumped to "I can't see you in black" despite the fact I must have been a huge black lump, in broad daylight, with a light on....

    Posted 4 years ago #

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