CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Today's rubbish driving...

(11267 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Stepdoh
  • Latest reply from Frenchy
  • This topic is sticky

  1. Speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles, there being quite a few practical reasons:

    Cycles are not required to have speedometers, therefore it cannot be assumed that a cyclist will know how fast they are going;

    Where cycles DO have speedometers they are not subject to an annual calibration test (in the MOT) and so their accuracy cannot be assured;

    Cycles carry less destructive energy into a collision (though obviously being hit by a bike at 30 could have serious consequences);

    Cycles, being smaller and more manoeuvrable have more chance if avoiding a collision.

    Of course if a cyclist was speed gunned over the limit then it COULD be classified as dangerous cyclist (please not 'furious and wanton', that's ancient and doesn't apply anymore as far as I'm aware), but that requires a subjective view of the officer viewing the speeding as to whether the speed itself constituted dangerous cycling (taking into account all sorts of factors from the surrounding environment).

    Anyway, short answer, cyclists cannot break the law on speeding because the law on speeding doesn't apply to cyclists (have had confirmed in a great response from the police a number of years back when I was writing an article on it, together with the weird mistaken belief that cycling offences can get people points on their driving licence).

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. wee folding bike
    Member

    I sometimes pass traffic cops with a speed gun in Bargeddie. They usually shout my speed as I pass. I've never been any danger of getting a ticket.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. Focus
    Member

    @ cb

    "I noticed the other day that the Google Streetview car had been up and down the foreshore at Cramond. Did they get permission or does this count as bad driving.

    I don't suppose it was one of their camera bikes. "

    Not in my case - ridden by a couple of hoodies and pretty sure no helmets underneath!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. Roibeard
    Member

    @WC - no points on licenses (unless electrically assisted), but it is possible to loose them.

    Perhaps only in England & Wales though...

    Although ancient (Offences Against the Person Act, 1861), furious cycling appears to be the only one with a potential custodial sentence.

    Anyway, back to our regular programme of rubbish driving...

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. 24 hours late so apologies for my tardiness.

    A red ford Ka overtook me (on my bike) at a fair speed outside the scottish widows office at St Leonard's. She was accelerating so fast to get by me she nearly ran out of road and had to slam her brakes on to make the left turn - cutting right in front of me in the process - towards the queens park.

    I had to hit the brakes hard myself and only just managed to avoid rear ending her. Think my heart rate is about back to normal.

    Really ticked off I couldn't catch up with her at Duddingston but in hindsight that was probably a good thing.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. Smudge
    Member

    @WC "Where cycles DO have speedometers they are not subject to an annual calibration test (in the MOT) and so their accuracy cannot be assured"

    Erm... unless things have changed, the vehicle must have a speed indicating device fitted for an mot test, but it is not tested as to whether or not it is accurate (or indeed works!) Hence how years ago when I was a M/C courier my town bike passed it's mot with a broken speedo cable. Accuracy of speedo's iirc is a construction and use rule?
    All caveated by saying it's a good few years since I read the MoT testers manual (a riveting read...) so there may have been a change?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. Mea culpa, you're right. There were changes recently, which included being a bit more strict about the speedo, but it doesn't actually test that it's accurate...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. sg37409
    Member

    Was thinking about this slightly differently.

    Your going faster than the speed limit and telling others to do as I say, not as I do.

    Thats not likely to p1ss anyone off, is it ?

    Next time one of those guys in the cars whose just been told off by some self-righteous guy on a bike encounters a guy on a bike, he's not going to be too predisposed to being patient ?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. Smudge
    Member

    There we go, I've learned something tonight, I guess having a rev counter will no longer count as a speed indicating device, probably! :-)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. Smudge
    Member

    @sg37409 I think to be fair the speed of the cyclist will be immaterial to how annoyed or otherwise the driver will be. If he's travelling at 19.9mph on an accurate speedo, the car one will still be over-reading and the driver, if he bothers to notice would still think the bike was over the limit. If he was well under, do you think the speeding driver would be any less annoyed about being ticked off? I can't see it myself :-/ most of the ones wildly over the limit are not too predisposed to be patient in the first place, hence their scofflaw behaviour.
    Finally, the vast majority of drivers are barely aware of the speed they are doing, far less able to judge the speed of others, and most chronically underestimate the speed of cycles anyway, so the chances of them noticing that a bike is 4mph over the limit are remote in the extreme.

    Whether waving at drivers to obey the limit is a good thing or not I couldn't say, but I think the fact that the rider is doing 24mph rather than 19mph, whilst possibly inadvisable, is extremely unlikely to have any significant effect on the drivers attitude to them.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. Kenny
    Member

    he's not going to be too predisposed to being patient

    I think that's a fair point, @sg37409, some drivers will probably feel that way; that's a good alternative viewpoint you've suggested.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. gibbo
    Member

    The venue: the traffic lights where Gilmore Place meets Viewforth.

    I was heading east. Headed in the other direction was a council truck that was crossed the white line - by a significant margin (effectively blocking the lane) - in order to get round stationary vehicles.

    No problem because it was going to be back on its side of the road before I met it.

    What I didn't realise was that there was another, identically sized, council truck immediately behind it... whose driver thought it was safe to follow his colleague... even though he couldn't see what was coming the other way... and what was coming the other way couldn't see him.

    A close call.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. Darkerside
    Member

    Sunday's entertainment was a car coming from my right at a traffic-lit crossroads failing to spot he had a thoroughly red light and sailing merrily into the junction at 30mph. Cue lots of horns, and me confirming that the brakes on my other half's Clio are surprisingly effective.

    Two thoughts. Firstly - who on earth, when braking heavily, has a hand free to lean on their horn? Secondly - it's amazing how much awareness you lose from being in a sealed box. On the bike I'd have heard his engine a good few seconds before he appeared in view.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. DaveC
    Member

    RLJ on Whitehouse this morning as I rode on on the Route1 cycle path. Rode up to the ped/cycle crossing, pressed the lights, and they turned red to stop traffic. Queue a large white Merc swoosh through the light! tut tut...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. Riding down Drum Brae (heading north) yesterday I start picking up speed from about 20mph, freewheeling up to 33mph. Of course the lady in the red Micra behind has seen 'cyclist, slow' and even though I'm now going as fast as she was when she felt she needed to start overtaking, she accelerates a bit, then a lot, and passes quite close. And of course she's pulling into a junction on the right 2/3rds of the way down the hill.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. Uberuce
    Member

    T'other day I had a driver beep me for slowing him down, even though there was a red light ahead.

    Only remarkable because it's the closest I've ever been to a red when that's happened. Hilariously, bafflingly close.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "
    A68 crash: 15 in hospital after 5 car pile-up

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/a68-crash-15-in-hospital-after-5-car-pile-up-1-3062774

    Doesn't say if any bikes were involved...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. SRD
    Moderator

    @uberuce I get cars doing that to me on tarvit street. which is what 100m long?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. We drove over Soutra on Sunday coming back from the Borders. I commented that I fancied riding over it some time, with Mel's response being that people drive too quickly there and it would be hell to cycle.

    Lots of impatience around that bit of road, but speculation does little to understand whereas the crash investigators will have got the whole story. Here's hoping no-one is seriously hurt or worse.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. PS
    Member

    @WC I've ridden the B road that goes past Soutra a few times as a loop that goes up the Granites, left to Heriot, along the A7 a bit, then left over Soutra, then left onto the A68 towards Dalkeith. I've found cycling on the A68 that way okay, largely because it's downhill, so you tend to be doing high 20s/low 30s for a lot of it. Any HGVs going past tend to have enough room to overtake properly too.

    I'm less sure how much fun it would be to cycle all the way up the A68. The speed differential between climbing cyclist and motor vehicle would be significant.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. deckard112
    Member

    I cycled up the A68 yesterday not too far from the scene of that accident (although further North at the Pencaitland junction). Not much more to that anecdote! I did however cycle most of the A68 as part of a charity ride I was doing and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes, a fast road, but very wide and plenty of room most of the time. The once exception to that was on the climb up to the official border where a lorry tried to overtake a queue of traffic going the other way pulling into my lane and forced me off the road. Massive shot of adrenaline and I was at the summit in no time!!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I'm less sure how much fun it would be to cycle all the way up the A68. The speed differential between climbing cyclist and motor vehicle would be significant.

    The speed differentials I experienced last week on Lewis were terrible. On the two-way roads the limit is 60mph and I was going uphill at something like 5-10mph. Even if vehicles were religously obeying the speed limit (which would be a first for this country), I was still faced with an endless stream of vehicles whizzing by without slowing down at something like 50mph more than I was doing, many of them without so much as even crossing the white lines in the middle of the road.

    It was so dreadful I resolved then and there to never cycle again on Lewis.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. twq
    Member

    Quick update on the hit and run - reported to the police, got incident number. One policeman was hugely helpful, going out of his way to help. Very impressed.
    He gave me the driver's policy number and company(it was a woman, I wasn't being subconsciously sexist!), so I got in touch with the insurer. Took the weekend, but I called up today and they're sending a cheque for the new wheel. Didn't ask for receipts or anything, very trusting. I can drop it in for a service and they'll pick up the bill.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. paolobr
    Member

    Yesterday evening heading east along Queen Charlotte St to Leith Links. Notice small blue hatchback at junction of John's Place. At this point I know exactly what he's going to do, and indeed he does - he pulls out in front of me. Much gesticulation. To cap it all he then makes an immediate left into Elbe St (no signal), having to slow sharply as another car comes out of the street. Fortunately I'd left myself enough room.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  25. DaveC
    Member

    As I sat at the food of North Bridge in the middle lane heading towards Leith St, a motorbike pulled to the front of the queue and sat next to me. The Green onto Princes St went red and he tore off towards Leith St, only to stop very abruptly 3m away, as the Red onto Leith St (opposite North Bridge) remained, and traffic started to turn off Prince St heading up North Bridge. He pushed his bike back along side me, as I gave him a big sarcastic smile! The he tore off again as we got a green light, and I caught him at the top of Leith St, and then again at the red lights half way down Leith St, and then gave him a cheery wave as he glanced over to me as I passed him heading for York Pl, as he queued to get onto the roundabout to head down Elm Row.

    Smug as a kitty with a whole saucer of milk!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. Greenroofer
    Member

    http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->

    [+] Embed the video | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoD7mK8Pns

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    Isn't there some law about not overtaking inside the zig zags? Doesn't the Highway Code say something about leaving lots of room when you overtake?

    ...and I'm sure there's some stupid advert about assuming that I'm a horse.

    None of it seemed to help with these two, who were clearly very important people who needed to get past me right then.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. Kenny
    Member

    That's pretty pathetic driving. Nice video editing though.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. Snowy
    Member

    You're very calm about it. I'd be referring both of those to the local constabulary, if you can make out the plates.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  29. A 'Boogie in the morning' liveried cab tried to cause carnage at a RL at the meadows/summerhall junction last night. U-turned through an ASL tooting (and not stopping) causing cyclists to scatter to the four corners of the box! Easily the most inconsiderate, and no doubt illegal manoeuvre I've witnessed in a long while.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  30. wingpig
    Member

    Forgot one last night. Going east along George St, I was the only thing in the left-hand lane approaching the junction across Hanover St so was able to trundle gently past three or four taxis, a small white van and a couple of cars all the way into the box, where I could then start looking behind me to see if the sound of an approaching siren would affect me. As expected, an ambulance appeared from Frederick Street, so I shuffled across and dismounted to stand on the edge of the footway, clearing the left-hand lane for it. When they eventually noticed the noise or looked in their mirrors most of the vehicles in the right-hand lane then tried to move into the left-hand lane, blocking it, 'requiring' two taxis and the van to drive through the red light to either scuttle up Hanover St towards the mound or stop in the middle of the junction.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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