Driver who accelerated aggressively through a red light (I had stopped) at the pedestrian crossing just before the Robertson Avenue junction, in order to stop at a red light at the junction itself. Why, exactly?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Today's rubbish driving...
(11330 posts)- Started 13 years ago by Stepdoh
- Latest reply from fergus
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Posted 11 years ago #
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Everyday...there are now so many too close passes, cars being driven over the speed limit regularly, being abused, shouted at, beeped at, running of red lights by cars, the usual occupying the ASLs.
Too many to mention and catalogue frankly.
Is it my imagination or is it the case that in the past 12 months or so, that the standard of driving has gone downhill, and that car drivers are becoming totally intolerant of any other road users, and in particular perceive cyclists as a nuisance and impeding them in their rush to their destination, that is if we have even entered their psyche and believe us to have magically disappeared even when they have just passed us.
It certainly seems to me that this is the case, and do wonder if it is just me.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I've certainly noticed an increase in bad driving,positioning, speeding and general ass hattery with no real difference in my commute route.
The speeding really frustrates me at junctions. A friend asked me how I can know they're speeding. It's easy. If I know there should be space based on 8 years of riding the roads and there isn't - they're speeding.
Posted 11 years ago # -
From my recent experiences, I genuinely think the NWC adverts have made the drivers believe that they are justified in perceiving cyclists as a nuisance...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Received a punishment pass from someone in a white Nissan Qashqai for having the audacity to pull on to the mini roundabout from Braidburn Terrace while they decided if it was safe to pull out from Braid Road heading north. This pissed me off a little bit but my frustration was just intensified by a white van man pulling out of Braid Crescent into Hermitage Gardens as I was travelling down at speed only to do a U-turn back into Braid Crescent. He'd barely had enough time to pull out across me in the first place never mind perform that maneuverer so cue much skidding and as I had to emergency stop to avoid hitting him. Didn't even so much as acknowledge me and the passenger just looked at me blankly as if I was in the wrong. Couldn't be bothered with a confrontation so just cycled off shaking my head.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Lack of enforcement surely leads to unsafe/illegal actions becoming the norm. Plenty of examples of ASL encroachment, for example, must lead to drivers thinking it's OK. Witness the driver of the 25 bus at the Restalrig Rd/E Hermitage Pl, just rolling into the box while the lights are red. There was no cyclist there, but what if someone came on his left. Oh, sorry, forgot about 'Nope'...
Posted 11 years ago # -
SK13 VKM or similar, performing two unnecessarily close passes along Grange Road this morning.
Last night a soupy-looking green car of some sort deliberately rolled north through the red (from being stopped behind the ASL) at the Gilmore/Bread/Tarvit junction, presumably having assumed that they would get the green the moment the pedestrian phase ended.Posted 11 years ago # -
ASL hogging is getting really bad at the junction of Morrison Street/Torphichen Street. Last night I filtered down the cycle lane to find 2 in the zone (well technically 1 - the other was mostly in front of it!) I was turnin right so had to force my way in behind them. Fortunately a nice woman smiled and let me in and then have me plenty space as I went round to Palmerston Place.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I know rolling into ASLs is illegal (Highway Code 178) but what is the actual penalty? Is it the same as breaking a red light? £60 fine? 3 points?
Posted 11 years ago # -
A motor vehicle going into the ASL is effectively jumping the red - their stop line is the first one.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Confusion about ASLs leads to this:
"
Alex had intended to position himself in the cyclists’ box in order to turn right, but found that the box had been illegally occupied by a motorist. With concern for his own safety were he to stay in the inside lane and then have to cross three lanes of moving traffic in order to turn right, he decided to position himself ahead of the traffic and ahead of the Advanced Stop Line (ASL).A police officer witnessed the alleged offence and radioed a colleague, who stopped Alex along the road he had turned into and gave him the FPN. Having not seen the incident, the officer that issued the FPN could not assess the greater risk Alex would have been in had he positioned himself behind the white line. Alex was unaware whether the driver of the vehicle positioned in the cycle box had also been given a FPN.
"So yes, if a cyclist can be penalised for crossing the second line, then a driver can be penalised for the first. No info at the moment on whether the offending driver at this ASL also got a penalty, however.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Is there any way of establishing the police attitude to enforcing ASLs? I recall that L&B weren't going to enforce the 20mph zones in south Edinburgh. Have they a similar policy on ASL?
Would the number of fixed-penalties issued for ASL breaches be available through a FOI request?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm not aware that any motorist anywhere has ever been fined for breaking the law regarding ASLs. I believe (but have no idea where I got this from) that the police think that the penalties are excessive, so they don't enforce it.
One point: it is possible for a driver to end up stopped in an ASL legally, if the lights while they are waiting in it, or if the lights change and the driver can stop their vehicle safely at the second line but not the first. So one shouldn't criticise the driver of a vehicle you find in an ASL unless you saw them enter it illegally.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I recall that L&B weren't going to enforce the 20mph zones in south Edinburgh. Have they a similar policy on ASL?
I haven't noticed L&B enforcing any road traffic regulations of any kind whatsoever.
I think they attend collisions when requested.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@fimm indeed, hence my description of the bus driver intentionally moving into the ASL box. I know the lights were red as I was crossing (as a pedestrian) at the opposite set of lights.
Posted 11 years ago # -
One point: it is possible for a driver to end up stopped in an ASL legally, if the lights while they are waiting in it, or if the lights change and the driver can stop their vehicle safely at the second line but not the first. So one shouldn't criticise the driver of a vehicle you find in an ASL unless you saw them enter it illegally.
Yes.
Posted 11 years ago # -
As a rule, I only criticise drivers I see blatantly drive or roll into the ASL on red.
It's one of the reasons why an ASL isn't proper cycling infrastructure. It's perfectly reasonable to get to the front up a left hand lane (if the Nicewaycode permits it) and find a car perfectly legally in it. What is the cyclist to do? Sit in the gutter and get potentially crushed as car turns left across? Or go even further forward and break the law themselves?
Posted 11 years ago # -
This evening, dreadful overtaking at Leith Links (Claremont Park, Hermitage Place). A driving school car (I'm pretty sure it was the same in each case) was being driven at suitable pace when it was overtaken in two separate incidents minutes apart by drivers clearly determined to get to the next red light ahead of everyone else.
Posted 11 years ago # -
What an ass of a pig's ear the law is with regard to mibbes aye mibbes naw and a driver being in the ASL box.
It's just an aggressor's charter allowing drivers to blatantly ignore the box, knowing full well it's a "grey area" and they'll never get pulled up for it.
Wouldn't it have been easier to say the ASL is for cyclists only? If you're a motorist, then don't enter the box unless your exit is clear, ie the same law where you're not supposed to cross the white line at the front of the junction.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Eejit who tried to over take me (with stoker) as I turned onto Polwarth gardens - when there wasn't room for his hatchback between me and the giveway markings. I gave him a nasty look and he hung back. But then took it out on some poor soul who 'got in his way' by trying to turn right up Merchiston Ave after the roundabout - that person took the brunt of the horn blaring and finger out the window (doubtless also witnessed by all the kids waiting to cross at Lollipop man).
not #nice
Posted 11 years ago # -
Within 5 mins on Duddingston ROad at school kicking out time I observe:
1. A Yodel van driver driving with his elbows as he eats a large roll (then toses the wrapper out the window for good measure).
2. A council bucket lorry driving at what must be approaching 40 mph (its a 20mph zone naturally).
3. Two drivers with mobiles calmped to there ears.Niceway Code anyone?!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Driver of small white van parked in my residential street who flung his door right into my path within seconds of me leaving my house. I managed to swerve round it and let out a panicked "whoa!' but the guy didn't even notice me never mind acknowledge that he should have looked in his mirror before opening his door. I can only hope he does the same one day when a bin lorry is coming down the street. Maybe losing his door will make him think about other road users.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Re the recent posts about cars in ASL boxes, this story from last year answers the questions:
Basically, it should be a £30 fixed fine.
Interestingly, the article (7th may 2012) says:
"On this occasion the drivers and cyclists were issued with a warning but when the education stage of the campaign finishes at the end of this month officers will begin enforcing fines."
Would it be fair to suspect that, at the end of the month, officers decided to do sweet FA?
Maybe someone should ask the police how many fines they've handed out over the last year.
After all, we all see this happening routinely when we're out cycling, so it's not like the problem has gone away.
Posted 11 years ago # -
On another note, I had a fairly event-free (apart from students walking onto the road at various stages) ride today.
Did see a driver on Roseburn St using a handheld mobile. But, to be fair to him, he stopped in the middle of the north bound lane in order to talk on it. (Blocking the lane - I was going the other way.)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Cycling up chambers street after work and get beeped from behind - I was in primary to stop silly overtaking between all the parked cars.
At the middle section where there are only cars parked on one side I move over and car overtakes. I caught up at the zebra crossing and asked why I was honked at - apparently I should have been in the left not the centre of the road. I stated that wasn't the case and that there hadn't been room to overtake regardless.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Would it be fair to suspect that, at the end of the month, officers decided to do sweet FA?
Would this be the kind of thing we can actually ask for under FOI? It would be very interesting to know just how many fines have been handed out, because as many have pointed out, people coasting into them happens all the time.
Except at the junction at the bottom of Clermiston Road North, when it doesn't ever seem to happen, luckily for me.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Outside a school, approaching a zebra crossing occupied by a child, on a bend, and this happens.
Posted 11 years ago # -
There weren't any bad driving incidents today ??
Fri 13th... ??
Posted 11 years ago # -
I sent an FOI to the police to ask about number of drivers fined for rolling into ASLs. Got fobbed off with "excessive cost of compliance".
Response:
There are a number of pieces of Legislation covering Section 178 of the Highway Code, specifically Road Traffic Act 1988 section 36 & Traffic Signs and General Directions, regulations 10, 36(1) & 43(2). These pieces of legislation also cover other offences. In order to identify any recorded offences, which specifically refer to the crossing of Advanced Stop Lines (ASL’s) by motor vehicles, a manual search of all offences recorded under each of these pieces of legislation would be required. This information would also need to be cross-referenced with other systems in order to extract figures only covering the crossing of ASL’s. As you can probably imagine, this would be a very time consuming exercise.Therefore, I must respond in terms of Section 12(1) (Excessive cost of compliance) of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.
It is also of note that Rule 178 of the Highway Code states
“Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.”
This, in essence, allows for occasions where it is unavoidable for vehicles to be within the marked area between the white stop lines.Posted 11 years ago # -
I once did an FOI to the old L&B asking how many specific operations they had run aimed at enforcing ASLs or cycle lanes with regards to infringement by motor vehicles.
Unsurprisingly the result was a simple "none".
Posted 11 years ago #
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