CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Today's rubbish driving...

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  • Started 13 years ago by Stepdoh
  • Latest reply from fergus
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  1. dg145
    Member

    Interesting bus driving last night. Heading West through Bathgate the driver of a single decker First Bus (in service, with passengers on board) had a decision to make. Option A) hang back and allow me (in front) to clear the pinch point. Option B) push on through and we'll just take our chances.

    To my surprise he went for Option C), which was cross over onto the other side of the road and pass the crossing point on the wrong side.

    I've seen the odd car do that, but never a bus!

    Not quite sure whether it was rubbish driving or overly courteous driving (to me).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "STAY AWAY FROM MY BRIDGE!"

    It's okay, it's presumably just a very very small bridge and so I can stride over the water downstream... ;)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. ARobComp
    Member

    LWB white van overtook on broghm street (sp?) as I was overtaking a parked lorry then pulled in directly infront of me about 10 metres ahead to join the que of traffic. Even if I hadn't been about to move right (thus making this even more annoying) he gave me barely a metre of space around the parked van and then pulled in which if I'd been going left would have been dangerous too.

    I pulled up to the window to suggest he is a touch more careful and waits and the guy looks like he woke up about a minute ago and was having a massive stretch - I'm assuming that he hadn't seen me at all.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. Darkerside
    Member

    @dg145: Unless he was claiming emergency driving exemptions (possibly confusing himself with, say, an ambulance), then it was both rubbish driving and illegal.

    To add my own in, I had a car overtake me yesterday on a blind, sharp left turn which immediately runs into a T junction. I was turning right, so the car stopped alongside me in the oncoming traffic lane level with the give way lines.

    Truly stunning...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Min
    Member

    It's okay, it's presumably just a very very small bridge and so I can stride over the water downstream... ;)

    How dare you! I paid my bridge tax and I am going to eat anyone who crosses.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    @Darkerside

    Seems to be a restriction in a narrow set of circumstances.

    Rule 165:
    You MUST NOT overtake... if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line.

    There is a 'should not' (so not actually illegal) with respect to not overtaking in a traffic calmed area.

    Additionally the Highway Code website has a list of signs which it says you 'must' comply with (but then doesn't give the statute that would make it 'must'), which includes the little blue circle with white arrow to denote Keep Left, but not all islands have these.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    @Min

    Can I cross if I'm wearing a helmet and a hi-viz flotation device?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. Min
    Member

    Nope <------> If you must.

    I know your sort. Always bleating on about your segregated goatways.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. twq
    Member

    Off to Cairo again on business. Helps me get a bit of perspective on what constitutes bad driving. Wont see me on a bike there!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. jdanielp
    Member

    Two separate cars coming towards me on the wrong side of the road as I heading away from the King's Theatre along Gimore Place, presumably to get past traffic queueing to turn left and gain access to the right turn lane near to the junction. The first wasn't all that bad since it was not that far from where the right turn lane emerges, and there weren't any parked car to my left, but still.. The second was quite bad since it was considerably further up the road and there were parked cars to my left so I wasn't left with all that much space. I raised my hand at the second driver in the traditional "what the heck are you doing" pose. He returned the same gesture to me. Had I been a wider vehicle then presumably neither of the drivers would have taken this risk in the first place, but if they had then the second driver would certainly not have had enough space to get through.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. Dangerous
    Member

    Driver shaking his head at me convinced I was cycling the wrong way up a one way street.

    Except he was driving East on Bread Street in the contra-flow bus and cycle lane that I was using.

    Too busy avoiding the head-on to note details.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I had someone actually swerve at me into that lane, beeping his horn and shouting. Sadly didn't have a camera on the bike at the time.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Stickman
    Member

    Junction at Roseburn Street again.

    I was waiting at the red light, had signalled to the car behind I was going right. A dark blue Toyota Celica pulled up into the left hand lane (marked as left-turn lane) beside me. Something about the way he was angled made me a bit wary, so I looked at him until we got eye contact so that he acknowledged me. As the lights turned green and I moved off I heard him pull in behind me and turn right before speeding down Wester Coates.

    I suspect that his original intention was to speed past me on the inside before turning right in front of me.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    Is there any CCTV at that Roseburn Street/A8 junction? Is sounds like that is an all too common infringement there.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. skotl
    Member

    ...was the guy in an xmas jumper and silver jag at 09:00 on the Ferry Road this morning.
    Up ahead (at the Farmer's Autofit junction) the middle lane was shut so we had two lanes of cars crawling at <4MPH.

    I was *carefully* filtering between the two lanes at no more than 6-7MPH and this prat in a jag in the left hand lane moves to block me off. There's a van in the right hand lane and this continued for the next minute or so.

    The vehicles continued to move and every time I try to get between them, he'd "accidentally" meander to the right.
    At one point, the van noticed what was happening and kindly moved over, and xmas-man-in-a-jag came over so far his right wheels were over the lane dividers!

    Eventually got past on the inside, pausing only to mouth quite a lot of obscenities at him.

    What a pilloch. Why would he do this? If we had been walking on the pavement, he's not going to constantly walk in front of me to block me, so why do it in a car?
    Still angry, five hours on :(

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. algo
    Member

    Hi skotl,

    very infuriating - I can understand why you're still angry. I've experienced that as well - in fact in my case it was literally swerving to the left to block me, then the right (after I assumed that he was pulling in for some reason) - complete insanity. And drivers wonder why cyclists resort to cycling on the pavement sometimes... earlier today while waiting to turn right at a crossroads on the pedestrian phase the van behind me urged me to go on the pedestrian green so I wouldn't hold him up when it was our turn to go - I think he took offense to me filtering to the ASL (contentious issue though it is).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. Focus
    Member

    Finally getting my Youtube videos somewhere near presentable, but apologies for the rough nature of the editing etc. In this case the Video is a little over-exposed as I had the EV increased from the start of the journey.

    This morning, coming back off the NEPN at Blackhall, this large VW comes towards me. Instead of pulling into the big space at the junction until I have passed him, he decides to drive straight at me, actually waving his hand to shoo me off to the side. I did use a choice word out of shock, hence the music, but I don't think he actually heard that, just saw my general disgust.

    I made a point of not getting in his face and held back until it was clear he wanted to make a point out of his actions. Even then, I wanted to be clear I wasn't going to be aggressive, just make it clear why I was displeased. When a second driver did the same as I was leaving the scene (apart from the arm wave) I called out to the first guy to let him see how close it looks to the cyclist.

    And that was the first guy's destination - he saved all of 5 seconds with his impatience and lost more my ending up in a discussion of wright and wrong. I did nearly do a double-take at his bike driving comment though.

    As stated on the video, the wide angle makes the distance to the car at the beginning look a lot further than it was.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Widget

    (You may have to use the Youtube button to see the speech bubbles displayed in full).

    Oh, and shortly after that, a van double parked next to... invisible cars. But it's ok because it's hazards are on!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    Silly driver in a white VW up! this morning heading West through Holyrood Park. I'm doing 20 (in the car) and they overtake and speed off.

    Caught up to them at Dynamic Earth, and all the way to west Port I was right behind them until we parted ways.

    Speeding and overtaking in a 20 zone in a pitch black park for nowt!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Kenny
    Member

    @geordiefatbloke -

    (a) yes, but
    (b) that's more than I expected

    I had an incident that was at least as bad as yours, all filmed in glorious HD, where a driver almost ran me over turning right into a side street and missed me only because I somehow swerved out of his way. The police said all they could do was visit him and tell him he'd been a naughty boy, even with video evidence. Apparently, to take him to court, he actually needed to hit me. It's pretty pathetic, I'm afraid, so even if you had video evidence, I'm afraid there's still nothing they would do.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. Kenny
    Member

    @condor2378 -

    Personally, no, I wouldn't recommend hitting a vehicle, no matter how justified, if only for self preservation. From my experience of seeing and hearing about other people who have done this, drivers tend to go bat-sh*t insane when you merely consider touching their pride and joy, to such an extent that I don't see it as being worth it.

    Note that when the red mist descends upon me, nothing will stop me doing it, and far, far more. So I do recognise the irony here.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Kenny
    Member

    When video evidence is involved, how do the police usually ask for it to be submitted?

    tl;dr - no idea.

    They have never expressed an opinion to me one way or the other so far, I'm afraid. But to date I have put it as an unlisted video on YouTube, which they have not indicated any problems with... but since no incident has been taken to court, not sure whether that would still be ok or not.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. douglaswaring
    Member

    So, when Belford Road goes around the corner and then there's a hill up to the pedestrian crossing between the 2 modern art galleries, that hill would be a crazy place for a car to overtake a bike in primary, right? Especially if there were cars on the other side coming downhill, right?

    Apparently the driver who did just that this morning didn't think so.

    Where was he going? The modern art gallery.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. HankChief
    Member

    @Focus

    I have mixed feelings about your video.

    Yes, you had priority and he should have given way.

    He either thought there was enough space or didn't see you until he had committed to passing the cars - either way not great.

    However, once he had committed could/should you have stopped by the gap in the cars?

    I come across this situation a lot from taking the back roads with the kids on board where I want to be extra cautious. If I couldn't have stopped in time and didn't want him to squeeze past me I would have alreadt been taking a very strong primary and prevented him coming past. If you make it absolutely clear what your intention is they react accordingly..

    I also tend to think of what I would have done if I'd have been driving a car when assessing whether to get upset. In this case I would have waited and shrugged it off as an impatient driver..

    Just my opinion...
    .

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. skotl
    Member

    @douglaswaring - I know exactly what you mean. I go down that hill in the morning and up in the evening and I always go beyond taking primary, being 2/3 way to the right of the lane.

    The reason I do that is that when idiots like the one you encountered try to overtake you literally have nowhere to go because of the railings. I'd rather piss someone off for 30 seconds than get jammed between a car and the railings.

    Not been a good day for us lot, and the driving citizens of Edinburgh, has it?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. douglaswaring
    Member

    I'll say one thing for my idiot overtaker - when he passed he was on the other side of the road so he gave me loads of room, just none for the cars coming towards him. They stopped though so that's alright.

    skotl, at least you know the guy in the jag was aware of you.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Focus
    Member

    @ HankChief

    No problem with you sharing your opinion :-)

    It's unfortunately not clear due to the over-exposed image, but he was waving his hand at me to get out of his way very early. He certainly saw me early enough to have waited. On the other hand, I wasn't expecting him to continue piling up the road towards me. That's a pretty wide car, leaving very little space. Had he even slowed to a relative crawl and edged past, I would merely have been shaking my head (as I've done there in the past), but it was the total disregard for my safety coupled with the wild dismissing wave of his arm that riled me. To him, I was a fly he was swatting away from his face.

    As for me stopping, I was really more concentrating on his actions and didn't feel I had the safety margin to look behind me before throwing the anchor out, knowing that he was approaching pretty fast.

    Finally, his attitude that I should simply have been subservient and squeezed into the kerb where there is a fence didn't sit well with me. And to save himself 5 seconds as he was already at his destination...

    (If I'd been driving, I'd have had a chance to glance in the rear-view and would have a nice bumper to offer a little extra protection even if I was rear-ended. Not so great when your rear bumper is your tyre).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. douglaswaring
    Member

    Focus, was his excuse for driving dangerously (subjective use of the adverb) really that "I think you were using more of the road than you needed to"?

    Why does that give him the right to drive directly at you, on your side of the road?

    I doubt I would have been so calm in that situation, congratulations on your restraint.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. Focus
    Member

    Yes, that really was what he said. The idea of explaining "primary position" and so on briefly crossed my mind but it was clear he wasn't the type to want to hear that, especially when he told me that he "drives" a bike too. It's funny how many people "also ride a bike" when they do something or say something stupid towards cyclists - just look don't look at the EEN comments.

    As for restraint, well as I say I did utter one phrase at the initial incident but was quite pleased afterwards how calmly I explained myself. I was only raising my voice at the end as I had turned away to ride on and he was getting back in his car whilst still mumbling something to me. He was probably fortunate to be my first bad driver of the day. By the time I encountered that phantom double-parked van moments later I was just sighing at the thoughtlessness of that.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. condor2378
    Member

    Language restraint really is the best possible course of action as I think you instantly lose any argument when you start swearing as the focus becomes the aggression as opposed to the content, but I'll be the first to admit that when someone puts my well being in jeopardy I have a very very hard time containing myself.

    If confronting a bad driver I have to count to 10 and think about what I'm going to say to highlight the issue rather than spout a vitriolic and incoherent ramble. I'm not entirely sure that I've ever managed it in entirety yet, especially when the drivers reply with the usual excuses but self knowledge is the first step of self improvement.

    tl;dr Don't swear, must take own advice.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. adamthekiwi
    Member

    Lothian bus incident for me - actually a couple of days ago. I was heading down Princes Street; at the junction with Frederick Street there was a 12 (turning left) totally blocking the ASZ, so I waited behind (I had squeezed past a couple of buses to get there) with a 22 outside him and a 26 outside and slightly behind me. About 100m beyond this junction the outer (tram-tracked) lane is coned off until The Mound. We pulled away, the 12 went left, the 22 passed ahead and pulled in front. The 26 came from well behind me, pulled alongside and then started squeezing me in to the pavement. He got well inside my lane before giving up and pulling in *very* close behind me, where he stayed until passing me over the junction of The Mound and Hanover Street, before pulling in again right in front of me.

    Complaint made to Lothian, by phone - they were very helpful and courteous (although have not yet been back in touch as promised). Video from rear and helmet cams has been sent to them...

    Posted 11 years ago #

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