CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Today's rubbish driving...

(11259 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Stepdoh
  • Latest reply from chdot
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  1. gibbo
    Member

    @algo

    @gibbo - yes awful. Sorry - didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

    I didn't take it that way at all. You're right, we need to take defensive measures like that.

    @Murun

    TBH, it's probably not even worth the effort. Experience has taught us that actually killing a cyclist - even when its your 2nd - is a short term ban
    and some community service.

    So, almost killing one will be... nothing.

    (Besides, I wasn't wearing my helmet, so I was "asking for it".)

    What I would need would be helmet cam footage. If I had that, I could have done something significant with it.

    But I don't have a helmet cam. (And, as I said, I wasn't wearing my helmet.)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. acsimpson
    Member

    I suppose it depends on how friendly the CCTV operator is. If you could get the footage on a disc then it would be as good as helmet cam footage. (ie nice for youtube but ignored by Her majesties finest.)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. gibbo
    Member

    It wouldn't be anywhere near as scary as footage from my perspective.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    There was competition today, but it was this champ;

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Widget

    something told me to wear my camera today...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. Tulyar
    Member

    Can you get registration for that car @Kaputnik? this deserves a wider audience than CCE.

    Not got URL handy but Glasgow Council should be takking tent after being hit with a £20,000 fine for killing someone (not sure if the driver involved got charged with a 'killing someone' offence as well), but certainly my local councillor has picked up on my e-mail and noted her own experiences of poor risk management and hazard awareness in the vocational driving community - even Strathclyde Fire & Rescue LEAVING a shout in Buchanan Street (crowded with pedestrian traffic) all jumped on to the appliance and let the driver drive through the crowd (no thought that there might be bind or deaf pedestrians likely to keep walking unaware of their truck). So @Gibbo that looks like an internal road on Sainsbury's site - must be under CCTV - look up Evening Times's story of Glasgow Council fined £20K for killing pensioner with scaffie truck.

    Discovered that Transport Managers (a mandated post to be held by a named person employed by an Operator's Licence holder (PCV and LGV) have as a statutory duty to keep a record of their drivers fitness to drive (including a log of offences and incidents). There is an Operator Compliance Risk Score - a way that the Traffic Commissioner (we have the non nonsense, cycling , and diminutive only in physical stature Ms Aitkin covering Scotland) assesses the ability of the operator to comply with being of good repute and operating with both safe vehicles and drivers.

    Some very fancy software now offered to TM's to log drivers at the 6 monthly licence check, or even more frequently and give them a traffic light score (green, amber, red) and thus get red score drivers given greater attention.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. Tulyar
    Member

    NB OCRS is actually a measure of the entire operator performance, and includes points scored for roadside inspections, the annual vehicle test,as well as driver driven risks (hours and other road traffic law infringements, medical issues recorded etc).

    Only restricted O Licence LGV operators do not have to employ a named Transport Manager with the CPC certification to do the job (these are - until this goes electronic) the trucks with orange O licence discs.

    @kaputnik I think that coach would be a Kirkcaldy based vehicle so referring this directly to the Traffic Office or Transport Manager of Stagecoach Scotland East via that address might get faster result. The usual best address is (by law) in 1" high lettering in a place where it can be read from the kerbside - usually behind the front wheel arch on lower body panels. Most Citylink coaches in Edinburgh are operated by Parks of Hamilton as the main contractor on service 900. Most Stagecoach Express are Fife-based but the 101/102 are Western Scottish registered (Stagecoach using the historic name on their O licence).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. twinspark
    Member

    Lights on and heading up Comiston Road, we get a close pass from a Brainless* Moron Whizz-kid (aka BMW) KY62 UWD who finessed this by left hooking into the Shell Braidburn filling station. The triple crown was that they were clutching a coffee cup in their right hand.

    * The fact they were brainless was confirmed as the few seconds they had gained by their actions was completely lost by them pulling up behind the vehicle whose driver was getting out as opposed to the vehicle whose driver was getting in! After a while they decided to reverse and go to the now vacated pump. Clearly thinking is not their greatest forte.

    Then on Braid Hills Road we had a completely unecessary close pass from CRB Electrical Transit Van SG58 ELB.

    Karma was then restored by a rather nice BMW 320d XDrive Touring (as opposed to the 318d Rep Special Saloon above - yes the jacket was hanging on the grab hook!) which passed me shortly afterwards leaving me about 2 car widths of room. Then coming down to the Liberton crossroads I was aware of a Mercedes ML class keeping back before the speed humps and not trying to beat me between the speed bumps (once the bumps start I think a bike is probably faster) to get to the red light. When the lights went green I kept left and gave them a wave to pass and got a return wave.

    Unfortunately anti-karma reared its head at the Kirk Brae lights where an Absolutely Useless Driving Idiot (aka Audi) decided to cruise up to the red light and stop completely in the advanced stop box! (Perhaps they saw the bike wheels painted and assumed that the other two circles had worn out which indicated this space was reserved for their make of car?)

    Be careful out their folks!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. fimm
    Member

    Person making an illegal left turn from Dalry Road to Haymarket Terrace nearly mowing down the pedestrians who were crossing on the green man. Not the first time I've seen this - maybe there needs to be a No Left Turn sign put up there, just to make it clear to the confused?

    I also had an experience similar to kaputnik's upthread the other evening. No footage, nothing to see.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. paul.mag
    Member

    This morning, cycling up W Maitland St from Haymarket station. I was in the right lane so that I could turn right into Torphicen Street, I was about 15ft behind the car in front and no-one was hurrying as the right filter was red. No-one apart from the driver of the citroen DS that is who overtook me on the tram tracks then cut in front of me and immediately stopped behind the queuing traffic.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Stickman
    Member

    paul.mag - that's unreal. Please tell me that you filtered to the front with an appropriate gesture as you passed him by.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. Greenroofer
    Member

    Twice in two days I've had someone overtake me and then immediately attempt to turn left. To be fair to them, in both cases they've checked before doing so and have stopped before left-hooking me. However it's led to a bit of 'after you, no after you' because I don't want to cycle up their inside and we're both now stationary because I've stopped as I wasn't sure that they weren't going to left-hook me.

    It's got me thinking...
    These two drivers were both perfectly OK tactically. They overtook me carefullyish and they checked their mirror before turning left over me. However they failed strategically. They weren't planning ahead: they were just dealing with each thing as it happened. If they'd been planning ahead they wouldn't have overtaken me in the first place.

    As competent cyclists we've got to plan ahead. If we want to turn right on a two-lane road we've got to plan our negotiations well in advance to get into the right lane.

    I've realised that much of the bad driving I see is caused by the difference between tactics and strategy...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    @greenroofer see what you are saying of course but to reduce it slightly many drivers only ever look one vehicle ahead whereas many cyclists take in a picture that is much more extended.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Snowy
    Member

    While it's never the "official" reason, I'm pretty sure that a large proportion of collisions are fundamentally caused by an failure to think more than 2 seconds ahead.

    It's a staple of control of any sort of vehicle that beginners are only capable of looking at the controls of the machine, and then attention starts to expand outwards. Advanced drivers and cyclists look a long way out and take into account not just what they can see, but they can't see.

    Like any skill, it takes conscious effort to begin with and slowly becomes an embedded behaviour. But as soon as a person stops consciously trying to improve, well, guess what, they stop improving.

    Sadly the basic car driving test does little more than check someone can use the controls of the vehicle and understands a few signs, and stay out of trouble during a short test.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Focus
    Member

    Yesterday afternoon:

    On Murieston Cres (from Russell Road), a white butcher's van (I think, too busy reacting to be certain) comes out of Murieston Lane right across the front of me -forcing me to brake - before literally 3 seconds later indicating left and stopping halfway ina parking box on the left in front of me.

    As I rode past, I simply said, "What was the point of that?" and got a reply of, "I indicated, you stupid c***!"

    Not only was that the first time anyone has ever use the "c" word towards me, he was totally missing the reason I was aggrieved - the simple fact he'd ignored the Give Way lines and decided he had right of way because he was in a bigger vehicle. The pointless "time-saving" and associated bad parking with insufficient warning was simply the icing on the cake.

    Wish I'd got his business's name but there was a car behind me and with his aggression level I didn't think it prudent to stop. Plus I had limited time to get to my destination. Utter moron.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. Kenny
    Member

    Roadie in front of me while I was toddling along on my MTB (commuter totally broken atm) heading from Earl Grey St to Brougham St was nearly taken out by a driver who overtook us both while indicating left, and then I had an amazing view of him nearly taking out said roadie with left turn into Lauriston Place. I commiserated with said roadie who had slowed down due to said life-threatening manoeuvre.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. SRD
    Moderator

    had a lovely ride to market and back. almost no cars. all the lights changed for me, then this

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    wish i had a rear camera too...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. jdanielp
    Member

    It looked like it was going to be a nice, quiet cycle to work when I set off this morning. Then I arrived at the junction at the King's Theatre as usual... There were two vehicles queuing on Tarvit Street at the red light: a private hire style taxi and a small council rubbish truck ahead of that which looked like it was intruding a little into the ASZ and was indicating to turn left. I wasn't sure how long the lights would remain red so I filtered forward using the cycle lane until I was ahead of the taxi but behind the truck. The lights turned green shortly afterwards so I was relieved that I hadn't tried to get to the front into the ASZ and slowly followed behind the truck as it moved off and turned left. As this was happening I was aware that the taxi was also moving off and pulling alongside me, which I put down to impatience from the taxi driver to get ahead of me as soon as possible as we pulled away, probably due to being irritated at my move to filer ahead under the red light. As the truck cleared the junction and I attemtped to speed up and move straight out into the junction I then became aware of the taxi veering towards me, at which point it became apparent that it was actually turning left, despite not previously having been indicating to do so, which meant that the driver was either completely oblivious that I was there (unlikely) or intentionally cutting me up. Luckily I reacted quickly and braked to a halt as the taxi completely cut me off and turned left, which provoked a shout of anger from me. As I set off across the now traffic free junction I caught incredulous looks not only from a pedestrian who had seen this take place, but also the driver of a black cab who patiently waited to turn right from the other direction until I cleared the junction. Typically this all happened so quickly that I failed to make a note of any details of the taxi for reporting purposes...

    Following last week's incidents in this vicinity (of which I only mentioned one in the thread) and various previous issues, I think that I may stop filtering at this junction under the red light at all because doing so is increasingly antagonising and confusing drivers whilst generally increasing my risk in the process :-\

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    I don't ride Tarvit Street, but having seen it from across the way at a wait for the Gilmore Place lights yesterday, I think I'd prefer filtering up the right hand side than the left. That way you end up properly in front of the vehicle at the lights and not potentially pinched at the railings whether it's going straight on or left.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    Since there are rarely right hand turning cars, a right hand filter is generally easy to do. or just stay back in queue. never had a pinch problem, but frequently see cyclists perched in the gutter there.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. jdanielp
    Member

    Hmm, I may give right filtering a try but may just stick with my staying back in the queue decision... So long as the ASZ is clear and the red lights are reliably going to be on for enough time (usually easy to judge) then the left-hand cycle lane has generally been fine for filtering clearly to the front, but it does irk some motorists. A while ago I had a taxi driver intentionally squeeze me against the parked cars on Gilmore Place and shout at me for 'overtaking' him at the red lights there.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. NiallA
    Member

    SRD - I think I'm missing the point of your Fountainbridge video. Is it something about the mobility carriage on the left?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. SRD
    Moderator

    err...the rubbish lorry that signals (yay!) and then cruises straight over onto my side of the road? He's apparently trying to turn down Gibson terrace, but does so by entirely entering the right hand lane (from his perspective). Misses my rear wheel by inches rather than feet. I'm really not sure he knew I was there at all.

    needs rear-mounted camera, or camera on helmet I guess.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. NiallA
    Member

    Sorry - it's the wide angle lenses on those cameras. I was focussing more on what was directly in front of you (not much!), so didn't really pick up on what was happening on the RHS of the picture! Take your point...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Boff
    Member

    A bit of de-lurking required. Just back from Leith cop shop having made a statement about a metallic blue BMW 1 series or more precisely the nutcase driving it. Cycling from the Restalrig Road junction through the Links with the blue BMW in front doing about 15 mph so everything seems good. There's football on so maybe he is taking his time in case kids run out? Get to the junction with Constitution Street and blue BMW stops before the ASZ. So far so good.I enter the ASZ using the left hand cycle lane and cross over to the right hand side as I'm going right. Now things start unraveling. I hear the engine rev twice and blue BMW moves into the ASZ and up my right with about 6 inches to spare. Window on passenger side slides down and sweary words are issued. I couldn't make out what the guy initially said but responded by asking what the point of risking three points when he could easily overtake after the junction. Apparently this makes me a wee c*** who needs his block knocked off and the only points he gets would be because he knocks me off my effing bike. Lights change and he heads off up Queen Charlotte St. I head off and have an angry session in the gym at Ocean Terminal before deciding to report the incident. What really annoys me is my own reaction at the time. I failed miserably to get the number plate and didn't properly process that he had threatned to assault me with his vehicle until I told my wife about it and she went a bit nuts. Anyway the PSCO/Desk Seargent was very helpful and took notes amounting to two sides of A4. They have CCTV overlooking the junction and will look at that. Not expecting much as the CCTV doesn't look like it covers the actual ASZ but at least I've got an incident number.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. SRD
    Moderator

    good for you. hope you're feeling better about it too. never nice to be reminded that some people are homicidal

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Stickman
    Member

    I was waiting for a break in traffic this morning so I could cross Saughtonhall Road. The woman in the Ford Puma behind me decides that she can't wait any longer, so mounts the pavement to go up my inside to turn left. To then join the rear of the queue of stationary traffic waiting at the red light.

    Some drivers have the General Melchett mentality: "I don't care how stupid this is or how many lives it may endanger, I MUST occupy the 12 feet of land in front of me"

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. geordiefatbloke
    Member

    Last night's rubbish driving brought to you by a lady driving a large black mercedes who apparently thought "give way to the right" only applies to cars and not to the bike *already* on the roundabout, clearly indicating and actually performing a right turn. (Polwarth roundabout FYI).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. ianfieldhouse
    Member

    This morning I was in the car and was heading towards town on Oxgangs Road North having just visited the cashpoint at Tesco Colinton. I stopped behind a taxi and little red car waiting at the red light for the crossing from Tesco to Oxgangs Primary School. This was about 8:30am so a lollipop lady was doing her thing and helping kids across the crossing. She made her way back to the Tesco side of the road, having helped the kids, and as soon as her foot touched the pavement the taxi set off closely followed by the red car. The lights were still red and remained so for at least another 5 seconds. I was left exchanging baffled "what was that all about" looks with the lollipop lady. I can only presume the two in front were cyclists who just happened to be driving today since drivers never jump red lights.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. Focus
    Member

    On Monday, returning from my Pentlands ride,I was passed by a #24 bus (operated by Blue Bus), between Balerno and Juniper Green, with barely enough room for my elbow. Shortly after, I was overtaken by a police car, the occupants of which would just have missed that.

    A few moments later, a little old lady pulled out of a side road as if I wasn't there! She was actually driving alongside me on my left for several seconds before dropping back behind me! The cops presumably missed that one too even though they were immediately in front of me and I was waving for their attention. To compound her incompetence, she then passed me far too close, seemingly still oblivious to my turning round and shaking my head at her moments before. Someone needs to take her licence away.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. Kenny
    Member

    Driver turning right into me:

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    Posted 10 years ago #

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