CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Riding without lights

(102 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from Uberuce

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  1. Maybe it was people caught out by the clock change, but at least (at least) half the cyclists I saw last night had no lights on. even if you're caught out, in the pitch black that's just insane. I've never understood the ability of people to forego a simple safety step to avoid being smeared on the road.

    I'm going to buy a shedload of blinkies off ebay and start handing them out... (with citycycling cards of course...)

    I've been caught out like that before. By a couple of miles from home I decided it was starting to get too dark to ride. I got off and walked.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "half the cyclists I saw last night had no lights on"

    Well they were warned....

    Though as most of the comments on that thread said people were already using lights in the morning, I can only assume the ones anth saw were students - or don't intend to use lights ever!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. wingpig
    Member

    I wonder how different this evening will be after one dark evening's warning. I couldn't discern last night whether more pedestrians than usual were stepping off the kerb into moving traffic (seemingly forgetting that they were no longer illuminated by natural light, unlike at the same time last week) or just that I was noticing them more for their daftness: just because I was anticipating them it didn't mean any cars behind me would be, especially when they'd be concentrating so hard on looking for an opportunity to overtake.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. Min
    Member

    "I'm going to buy a shedload of blinkies off ebay and start handing them out... (with citycycling cards of course...)"

    Didn't TBC say he had tried this but nobody accepted the offer of free lights?

    Been meaning to say I got Bike Station leafleted at work the other day about lights. It mentioned the £60 fine for not having them. Did anyone else get this?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    yup those leaflets all over george square area, day before our last py meet. joint bike station/uoe

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. DaveC
    Member

    I've seen a few more cyclists without lights or at best with only rear lights, daft beyond daftness! I wonder why people don't accept lights? I can only assume as we're becoming 'London Centric' like socially avoidance, people assume you're selling something?

    Anth I applaud you giving away free lights. It is a very ultristic thing to do but these are grown ups and should be down right responsible for their own actions. Worst case, they may run someone over who hasn't seen them, (but then as wingpig has said some people assume they will be sean easily. Unfortunately even in daylight people are run over). I hope the police can be successfull in stopping and fining cyclists not lit properly.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Yes I agree there were a lot more lightless suicyclists around last night. And it wasn't just "ooh it's getting a bit dull, I best shoot home" sort of darkness, it was the dark sort of darkness. The sort that priest's socks are modelled after. I appreciated finally having a good light with a respectable range, mainly because even if it is overcome by streetlights and cars driving with fullbeams on, it picks out reflectors and reflectives on the unlit types (who do not go to the trouble of moving the nasty reflectors that bikes are sold with).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    it was the dark sort of darkness. The sort that priest's socks are modelled after.

    That dark, eh?
    Bike ninja territory. Sister Sprocket (RIP) would have approved.

    Last year I was caught out a couple of times, had left my lights at home. Coming down Regent Road at 10.30pm, pitch black, 27mph with no lights. Quite exhilarating, but wouldn't repeat it through choice.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. cc
    Member

    Yes.
    When I was younger I used to be a lot less fussy about lights than I am now. I used to assume that since I could see everyone else perfectly clearly, that they could also see me.
    When I started driving a car I realised that this wasn't so! When you're driving along in the dark, maybe fiddling with the radio, squinting through a dirty screen (you really should have cleaned it months ago but couldn't be bothered) or using wipers that need replaced (they smear the screen but kind of work), maybe coping with a fractious child - and almost certainly going faster than your average bicycle - well, you're a lot less likely to be able to see everything in front of you.
    As I say, I only realised that fully after I'd started driving a car myself.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "I only realised that fully after I'd started driving a car myself"

    Which pretty much states the case for people being experienced cyclists before they are allowed to drive!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. PS
    Member

    Or the case for being an experienced driver before they are allowed to cycle at night!
    *runs for cover*

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. Smudge
    Member

    Damn, PS beat me by 12 seconds! :-))

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. crowriver
    Member

    I too seem to recall being a bit cavalier about bike lights in my twenties. I think I had some of those chunky Ever Ready lights with the huge double batteries mounted on front fork and rear stays of my 10 speed racer, but the batteries ran down and were a pain to get replacements (or so it seemed to me at the time). So they were often feeble or off the bike being 'fixed'. I think I used to wear fairly dark clothes too. Ah well at least my reflectors were in place on front. rear, spokes and pedals...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. PS
    Member

    When I were young, I remember lights being a pain, the non-dynamo ones being rather bulky, taking massive batteries and emitting tiny dribbles of light before finally spluttering to nothing within a few weeks.

    There's really no excuse now, what with all the tiny LED flasgers you can get.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    These are the fellas, I think. Maybe a slightly more modern model than this (square front light) but similar design:

    I'm sure these guys would be seen quite easily even by really distracted motorists. Can they see where they're going though?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. Morningsider
    Member

    crowriver - I had set of those! I seem to remember that they took huge, square ever-ready batteries. Cycle lights really have came on in the last 20 or so years.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    I must have misremembered. These are the ones I had in late 1980s/early 1990s. Took 2 x 'D' size batteries each:

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. Smudge
    Member

    Remember both, the upper set took round batteries as well (well the ones I had did!).
    Came with plain steel brackets guaranteed to knacker the paint on your rear stays, and invariably rattled (when they weren't working loose).

    Modern bicycle lights are awesomeness. I'd still like a "classic" bicycle with carbide ones though, just because... :-)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. Min
    Member

    I had the first set that Crowriver posted. I remember that they mainly cast shafts of light out to the side which made very scary shapes in the bushes. Before that I had a dynamo set that ran with a flippy thing that clamped on to your rear tyre and made it seem like you were cycling through treacle.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. cb
    Member

    Did the first type not fit to those 'standard' bike light clamps that bikes used to come with.

    My brother had a set. I was far more up to date by having crowriver's 2nd posted set. Still using them when we toured the Outer Hebrides in 1997, but don't think I had to use them except for when we came off the Barra ferry in the dark (where I discovered that the batteries were flat).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  21. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Even I - as one of our younger posters - am old enough to have had a set of Ever Ready double-D-cell-powered lights. These ones were black and yellow case (theme developing?) slightly different in that the cells lay parallel to the ground rather than perpendicular. They have an oblong lens, slightly curved and an "ignition" style key on top, that locked them to the bracket on 1/4 turn and then turned them on on a further 1/4 turn.

    I think my Dad may still have one in his garage for use as a torch.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  22. wingpig
    Member

    @kaputnik From the description of the battery-orientation I think you're thinking of Duracell Lockable Lights, which I had after my Ever Ready things. Did the key look like this?

    (One of the keys, anyway - the other was the same shape but black.)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  23. Dave
    Member

    The interesting thing about people who ride with no lights is that more of them don't get run over. At this time of year, forums everywhere are exploding over these daredevils, yet the average number of people killed cycling after dark in Scotland is zero.

    Weird eh?

    While this shouldn't be taken as an endorsement to Make Like A Ninja, it does kind of put into perspective the danger of letting a lorry driver overtake you and turn left (i.e. the way that people actually do die) VS all the fretting you can read online about how many megalaser rear lights are the minimum needed to survive while going to get the milk.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Ah, yes wingpig, that is exactly the key (left one) and yellow/black would make sense for it being Duracell's corporate colours not Everready.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  25. custard
    Member

    I was going o post a thread on the same topic
    I had the joy of getting a bus across the city yesterday (Gorgie to The Jewel)
    I was on the top deck and was amazed(not really the right word) at the number of cyclists with no lights & often as not dark clothes.cycling in and out of cars,jumping red lights etc
    I also noted how well those cyclists in neon yellow jackets stood out

    Posted 13 years ago #
  26. gembo
    Member

    There is a contradiction as Dave points out - Anth started the thread saying it was amazing the number of cyclists he saw without lights. He did of course - see them. You can then compare this to when you are knocked off and the driver says SMIDSY. I am guessing all the people on this forum are however lit up like belisha beacons. It makes sense. The old PIFCO brand was a cheaper competitor to the Everready. Nice contrast to the commodity fetishism apparent in the modern era of Cateye etc twice as bright this year as they were last year.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  27. Dave
    Member

    FWIW I find little difference between my 900 lumen Hong Kong weaponised torch and the cheap EBC flasher I had a few years ago (apart from the torch only lasts an hour between charges!)

    I used to think that a powerful light had quite a positive effect on drivers but now I don't. I wonder if it's because the impact has worn off with so many people having potent setups. Was I benefiting purely as a first adopter?

    If you habitually ride in a luminous jacket, there's an easy experiment you can conduct to see whether drivers are giving you extra space because you are more brightly lit:

    - ride in a dark top instead
    - carry a black D-lock in your right hand (for bonus points, ride with your right hand off the bars too, so you can vaguely wave it about).

    The naive view is surely that swapping the hi-viz for a small black object in your hand would bring only trouble, and there can be no doubt that the "concerned citizen" who reports on seeing you will be morally outraged. But all the same, I find riding with a d-lock has a really drastic effect on the way drivers manoeuvre, in a way that having three Smart rear LEDs and a luminous top does not.

    Are they driving dodgily because they're having trouble seeing you? Not so much IME.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    A shout out to the following three lightless-ninjas from last night.

    Cyclist A - eastbound at Haymarket, I had passed Ninja A - resplendent in a fluo yellow beanie hat - back at Donaldsons. You have to turn off left before the station and go round the diversion onto Roseberry Crescent. He must have bumped up onto the pavement and carried straight on because I found him again as I waited at end of Grosvenor Street as he rode across the pedestrian crossing. He then bumped off the pavement right infront of me into the traffic without looking - forcing me to avoid and into the path of a car that had more than likely run a red coming from Dalry and found itself mixing it with the traffic exiting Grosvenor Street on green. Car honked but I gave it a frustrated WHAT AM I MEANT TO DO sort of a gesture (basically, flipped him off without raising any fingers!) and went about my way. The ninja wobbled about in the bikelane, jumped the red to go up Torphicen but then sort of wobbled very slowly around (faux track stand) while traffic coming off of Palmerston Place blocked his way. This meant he couldn't see the lights so when they did change once again he wobbled into my path without checking behind. I was steering well clear this time, but I could have been a bus and he could have been flattened.

    Cyclist B - A trendy type in a checked shirt on a my-first-fixie type bike with no bar tape. I was approaching lights near junction of Lonsdale Terrace and Melville Drive. He had obviously filtered down the outside and turned sharply inbetween 2 cars where he found himself stuck and not able to get into the cycle lane on the inside (which I was in). The lights had already changed to green and cars were slowly moving off. When the car infront of him moved slightly, without looking he just moved forward to pull into the cycle lane. He got an "easy!" and a palm in the direction of his face. Disaster avoided.

    Cyclist C - ninja bike, ninja clothes including black beanie. He was coming up Meadow Place, I was going left off of Marchmont Road then first right onto Marchmont Crescent to get to Scotmid. He would have passed safely like an unlit ship in the night, if he hadn't suddenly tried to cut across the front of me (signalling) and onto the pavement to go up Marchmont Road, narrowly avoiding a T-boning.

    I restrained myself from any confrontation with any of these idiots. But when I got home I was annoyed with myself for not having a go. If they wan't to act like idiots and take their own lives in their hands through how they choose to cycle, that's their issue. But if they are doing it in a way that not just inconveniences those of us following the rules of the road but can put us in danger then next time they are going to get a proper bawling. Even if they look well 'ard - because they will have to catch me before they can beat me up, and they won't be able to recognise me without any lights :D

    The fortnight of forgiveness for not lighting up is over.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  29. wingpig
    Member

    Almost every time I've been waiting at the London Road/Willowbrae/Restalrig Road South/Piershill Terrace lights (to turn left off London Road to go north under the railway) over the past couple of weeks there's been someone else on a bike who evidently thinks they do have lights but only lights which have been blinking so feebly I've had to check to make sure it wasn't just the light from my own front blinkers being reflected. One of them had something attached to the rear of his helmet of approximately the size and apparent brightness of the LED on a remote control. I need to find that thread from last year offering suggestions of ways of delicately informing people that they perhaps need a fresher potato to stick their electrodes in.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  30. cb
    Member

    I was walking south down Morningside Road last Friday, approaching Morningside Station when I woman passed me, keeping quite close to the kerb.

    I clocked her as she was using a white LED as a rear light.

    She bumped onto the pavement at Morningside Station then dismounted and waited at the ped crossing.

    The final nice touch was when she started ringing her bell. I saw that she was pointing out (litereally as well as the bell ringing) to a driver waiting at the red lights that they didn't have their lights on. (So, actually pretty decent of her, but quite ironic)

    Posted 13 years ago #

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