Just read this, thought it made a nice change from our seasonal grumblings:
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Cyclists: the new new rich?
(28 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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Nice article.
"
John is one of the new new rich - rich, that is, in terms of lifestyle rather than money. On a slightly above-average income, he wants for nothing serious, and is able to afford anything within reason that he has time to. He is rich, in both time and resources, precisely because he does not have to spend one-fifth of his waking life either driving a car or working to pay for it."
I expect there are people here who can identify with that.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I'll have to work (to pay the mortgage) but if I can sell our cars or even down size the one we may need to keep, we'll be up quite a chunk.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The 'or working to afford it' side of things is interesting too.
Finger in the air, say our car costs us pa £500 in depreciation, £95 in tax, £400 to insure, £600 for servicing and repairs. Before it's been driven a mile that's well over £1500 a year, which is £2k earnings before-tax.
That means someone earning £20k has to work for 5.2 weeks of the year (until February 6th) just to keep their car on the road without even driving it.
Plenty of guys in my office spend at least £50 a week on fuel. That's ~ £2250 a year, or well over £3k earnings before tax. Combined with static costs they're paying 5k before tax to run their car.
Even someone who is just into the top band of tax will have to work until almost the end of February for free before they break even with their colleague who travels actively.
Posted 13 years ago # -
John needs a bit more air in his back tyre.
Other than that I can't work up the energy ... except to say that I hope someone else picked that image to represent his idealised self.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dave, don't forget that he's spending £2k on alternative travel. Some of your £5k will be spent on other forms of transport, unless you bike and walk everywhere.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Assuming my 10 year old car has done all the depreciation its going to do, my repair bill has been mercifully small over the last few years and the 6000 miles I did last year. Say £600 for MOT, VED and insurance. £400 for for the annual miscellaneous repairs. My trip computer has been running now for 12 months, 6000 miles averaging 32mpg and an average fuel cost of £1.20pl thats another £1k roughly
The car costs me in the region of £2k a year between the two of us, I can live with this. To be honest most of the mileage is my wife though and its a hard sell getting her to take the bus to work in Livingston.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Of course, it might be worth having a car whatever the cost. I don't think we'd go car free unless it was at least 5x as expensive to own a car as it actually is.
I am tempted to try it for a while whenever this car passes on, just to see what the true cost of car replacement services is when the marginal cost of the journey is also the full cost. I suspect we'd probably consider lots of currently "essential" journeys as optional if the cost was fully exposed.
It's tricky to judge replacement travel costs as that depends how much you travel (unlike fixed costs of car ownership) and whether saving money is actually an objective.
For instance, I just built a new bike which is intrinsically more expensive than buying one off the peg, and all the time I had a serviceable alternative bike I could have ridden for free! Does the excess new bike count as a travel 'expense' for the purposes of validating car free / with car lifestyle? Arguments either way.
Same with clothes. Apart from shoes, I don't ride in bike-specific gear (and I get around the shoe problem by using SPD trainers for all casual wear). However, you could spend £1000 a year on seasonal Assos kit.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Assuming my 10 year old car has done all the depreciation its going to do"
I think that's true of our car too - that is, it's worth as little as it will ever be worth. I averaged the cost of buying it less the cost of disposing of it (one way or another) over the total years we'll have used it to come up with an estimate of £500pa. If it lasted another four years on top, it would be £300pa in depreciation (even though it has already depreciated fully as I write), or £150pa if it lasted 14 more years...
Posted 13 years ago # -
However, you could spend £1000 a year on seasonal Assos kit.
Or on a Brooks or Brompton brand cycling Mackintosh!
Posted 13 years ago # -
"...but not being a car driver he doesn't get landed with all those tasks at work that involve hammering up and down motorways and getting stuck in traffic jams"
So John's lovely lifestyle comes, in part, at the expense of his colleagues - still, I'm sure they all see that it's worth it!
Posted 13 years ago # -
That's kind of a paradox of thrift argument (what if nobody was willing to drive up and down motorways or sit in traffic?) but IMO if behaviour like John's became widespread, it would simply be priced into the market.
For instance, suppose everyone in the company follows John's example. If it is truly necessary for someone to sit in traffic as part of their working duty, that position would pay better (or by corollary, people would be opting to earn less in exchange for not having to sit in a jam).
Once the cost is internalised it might throw up interesting results - for example, delivery schedules might currently "require" a van, but they might just as easily be modified to be doable by cargo bike *if the cost of sitting in traffic was not hidden*.
I'm lucky not to be in a position where I have to move stuff for work, but if I was, it would still be worth hard cash for me not to have to do it by car, and so (at least in theory) that could be priced into the job.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I only ever had a car briefly in London (an old mini to restore with help from flat mate)...
Moving stuff without one is relatively easy.
I use City Couriers as they have bikes, motorbikes and LPG vans (one of the first to do so). City Couriers - low emission deliveries
City Car Club has vans now too. Plus I can use the 8-freight that chdot has - when he's not using himself.
With bike deliveries from Europe you do appreciate the commitment of the HGV driver (splitshift). These companies have to work round weather and scheduling and the best are great communicators and have a great attitude to driving.
TNT did have an electric truck in Edinburgh TNT electric trucks 2008
Do they stilll run or was electric not the way forward as haven't seen the one truck for a while? Good PR but expensive?
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's an interesting article, if a wee bit smug.
For single guys or gals, or childless couples, who work in sedentary office/call centre/service jobs, cycling is a no-brainer. Even for self employed tradesmen it is an option: cargo bikes come in an amazing variety of sizes and functions, trailers are inexpensive alternatives.
The minute any of these folk decide to have kids though, suddenly a car becomes a "necessity". I know, I used to think that too: it is simply expected that if you have a family, you need a car. Of course, I've subsequently discovered this is not the case, at least if you live in a city with good public transport links. We kept open the option of car use by joining the City Car Club for a few years, but realised we had only hired a vehicle twice in that time. We simply did not need a car most of the time. For that tiny fraction of a percentage of journeys where one is necessary, we call a taxi.
To be honest most of the mileage is my wife though and its a hard sell getting her to take the bus to work in Livingston.
Livingston has train stations, and quite a good cycle path network if I recall correctly. Depending on where you live, might a folding bike + train be an alternative to the bus? Or if you are in the west of Edinburgh, there is a pretty good cycle path adjacent to the road through Broxburn that gets you into Uphall and Livingston.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It would be interesting to work out how much it would cost to do all our travel by taxi. I generally assume it costs about £10-15 each way, so instead of owning a car for £1500 pa we could take a taxi 2-3x per fortnight. We use the car way less than that.
I have thought about city car club but the problem is we don't really need to hire a car for city use. It seems to cost around £100 to hire a car for the weekend, so we could go once a month and still save (but the "cost" of going to pick up the car and return it, and the paperwork, and the opening hours of the rental company make it less awesome IME).
Posted 13 years ago # -
Hello,
Just joined to mention - I hope it's of interest - that the article in question originally appeared in Bike Culture magazine. Making it +/-17 years old. So some of the costings might not be entirely accurate!
Cheers,
Mick off of Cyclorama.
Posted 13 years ago # -
That's what I was wondering... £4k seemed low. Mind you it's only gone up to £5k now (hasn't it?) so effectively driving is still pretty cheap if done carefully.
(OT)
Hi Mick and welcome to forum... do you see that LB now has bigger showroom - maybe update pic on Cyclorama?Posted 13 years ago # -
"has bigger showroom"
You are more of a salesman than I'd given you credit for...given that previous 'showroom' was a window. You could write those flat adverts: 'spacious interior' etc :)
Posted 13 years ago # -
I wonder if I've saved a penny by bikelry since May.
The only monthly expense that vanished was gym membership of £48/month = £336
Bus pass that went from £40/month in my technically-a-student May-July period to £48/month = £312. However, I've got a day ticket for the bus maybe four times since then, so that's really £300.
= £636If I include what I can remember spending on all three bikes, I get a fairly rough figure of £1380. If I had only bought the cyclocross, that figure drops to £750. I don't in any sense need the other two, but since I won't ride them in all weathers and saltinesses, I'd have to recalculate the bus figures and I can't be bothered.
That said, I turned the grandpa roadster around in £100, so knocking on £100 for tools, lights and chains and I'd be miles ahead. IF, *IF* I had found it right away. But I spent months looking for him.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I kept relatively close notes on the lowracer but it was difficult to understand how much it cost / saved because I was also upgrading or tweaking it for events like PBP all the time.
Because the White Fright is exclusively used for transport it will be easier to understand the financials.
The trailer has already more than an eighth paid for itself...
Posted 13 years ago # -
White Fright is exclusively used for transport
Quite fast though? - maybe you'll be tempted to race it in the upcoming 'hub gear only races' that I've heard rumoured;-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's not spectacularly fast right now, but it could be a missile - with the spacers above the stem, mudguard and chaincase removed and a smaller sprocket fitted (to get direct drive at racing speed).
Oh, and something a little smoother than inch-and-a-half studded tyres... ;-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
You could always leave the trailer on, you'd be every ones best friend if you took their supplies!
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think trailers have maximum recommended speeds. If I recall correctly the Carry Freedom's limit is higher than some, but you wouldn't want to be racing one... :)
Posted 13 years ago # -
the Carry Freedom's limit is higher than some, but you wouldn't want to be racing one...
Ruggtomcat managed to exceed limit on his 'European Tour'. Didn't end well if I recall.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It has written on it that 25mph is the max speed. That's still good enough for a 24 minute evening '10'...
Posted 13 years ago # -
25mph or 25kph? I thought it was the latter, but am prepared to be wrong as the trailer's in the garage where I can't check. Certainly my first trailer, a Winther Donkey, has a speed limit of 25kph, but then it's a shopping trolley design and inherently less stable than a flatbed. I've found the Carry Freedom Y-Frame to be better at moderate speeds and downhill, you hardly know it's there. I think I might have done 27mph with it fully loaded (and No.1 son on the back seat of the bike) on a downhill in rural Norfolk. That was a bit scary though. Usually I try to stay below 22mph when carrying a lot of weight: sure wears the brake pads though.
Posted 13 years ago # -
40kph/25mph - I'm pretty sure..?
Posted 13 years ago #
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