CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.

Active Transport Budget Protest

(285 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by ruggtomcat
  • Latest reply from crowriver

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  1. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Copied from facebook

    "Wednesday, January 11, 2012
    Time1:00pm until 2:00pm
    Where
    St Andrews House, Regent Road, Edinburgh
    Description
    We need your help for just one hour to urge Scottish Ministers to increase funding for cycling and walking instead of funding expensive road-building programmes that will increase Scotland’s carbon footprint.

    Scotland has shown global leadership by setting the most ambitious emissions reduction targets in the world. But our Climate Change Act can only set a good example if we actually achieve what we’ve committed to do – and that’s under threat, as the Scottish Government has failed to fund its own plans to reduce emissions.

    The area that is of most serious concern is funding for sustainable transport.

    So we need as many people on bikes as possible to gather outside St Andrews House (which is the main office of the Scottish Government), at 1pm on Wednesday 11th January.

    A strong crowd will send a clear message that people in Scotland want an urgent change in the way public funds are being spent on transport. We’ll also be inviting the media to get national press coverage on the issue too.

    Whether you’re young or old, use your bike for commuting, shopping, fitness or pleasure, we’d love to see you there. A broad cross-section of people will send a stronger message.

    We hope you can join us for this important lunchtime event."

    original link: http://www.facebook.com/events/250701758325849/?notif_t=event_invite

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    Oh, sounds good! Just round the corner, may bring No.2 daughter if it's not too cold...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Time1:00pm until 2:00pm

    It said 5AM-6AM on the invite you forwarded me!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. ruggtomcat
    Member

    weird, was copied and pasted directly

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. Min
    Member

    Yes it says 5-6 on Facebook page with no specification as to whether am or pm. Then it says 1pm in the blurb. Hopefully they will clarify this closer to the time as I would definately want to support this if possible.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    Nope, it says 13-14:00 on the Facebook page. Maybe you guys have EST (NYC, etc.) as your default Facebook timezone or something?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. Min
    Member

    Really? I'm not on it so maybe it is just set to confuse people who do not bend to our overlord and master Emperor Zuckerberg. ;-)

    It should be possible for me though I won't be able to stay for an hour because unlike most cyclists I wash and have a job [/irony]

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. Hmmm. Not sure I'll be able to make it over but I can give it a go. Though I have to say, cynics hat on, I'm not sure the ministers will look out of the window and think, "Well, y'know, I was going to approve this budget for building a new Forth crossing and improve (i.e. make faster) the A9, and various other sundry benefits to the average motorist, but having seen those cyclists out there... Actually... I'll divert a much bigger portion of the budget to cycling infrastructure projects, I'd forgotten all about that until I saw that group." ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. Min
    Member

    Yes but if no-one bothers to protest about it then they will just assume that everyone is happy.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. Rather than seeing a protest and going ahead anyway meaning everyone feels disconnected and disenfranchised? :P

    (I do actually agree with you, I'd much rather people made the effort and there was at least a show of disagreement).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    If demonstrations never changed anything, then we'd still have a system where only male gentry and their hired hands could vote. There'd be no Scottish Parliament either (remember the vigil?).

    Some show of the strength of feeling on this issue is necessary, I think. You never know, concerted pressure from letters, e-mails, MSPs, lobby groups, and demos might just extract some concessions.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. SRD
    Moderator

    well put crowriver

    I just wish it was not the day after schools go back!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. I swear people never actually read what I write...

    "(I do actually agree with you, I'd much rather people made the effort and there was at least a show of disagreement)."

    However I do think these days that mass demonstrations in this country (I'm not denying the astonishing effect they've had in places like Egypt) seem to have less effect than they used to - witness thousands marching against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; marches against student tuition fees; and even marches that I disagree with like the Countryside Alliance. To my untrained eye they appear to have changed very little (if anything).

    The recent riots in London, if you accept that at least a proportion of it was borne out of frustration at social inequality, brought about kneejerk stricter controls that have the opposite effect.

    Have the very public demonstrations by Fathers 4 Justice changed anything? (genuine question, I don't know much about family law or policy)

    I took part in the Make Poverty History March, what was the outcome of that?

    And more recently the public sector walk-out, what has changed since then?

    Now, please read this bit, please. I am NOT saying that people should not protest - THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD, but is there a more effective way in modern Britain to do so?

    From Crowriver, "concerted pressure from letters, e-mails, MSPs, lobby groups..." - is this more direct, personal approach better? for one thing, in a letter you can explain and set-out your arguments. There's only so much you can explain in a catchy repeated chant on a march...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. SRD
    Moderator

    Anth - speaking as a social scientist, it is impossible to know if protests achieve anything (unless policy changed and minister says 'it was all because of the protests') because you can't test the counter-factual.

    Make poverty history probably did have an effect, but govt policy (all parties) was pretty much already onside. [can provide refs if needed].

    What about the big anti-war march in Glasgow? hard to tell. May have made governments less prone to interventions?

    But in either case, we don't know how policy might have been different if the big protests hadn't happened.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. That's kinda what I tohught.

    Best to stay revolting! ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. PS
    Member

    I can't say I'm entirely convinced that the Scottish Parliament came into being as a result of the vigil...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. One other thing I need to check - I know a couple of people who work at St Andrew's House, and apparently on a Wednesday the ministers aren't there, they're all down at the parliament...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Morningsider
    Member

    anth - you will almost never find Keith Brown or Alex Neil in St Andrew's House, their offices are in Victoria Quay or the Parliament.

    I support the idea of protests AND the use of direct lobbying. Protests might seem ineffective, but well organised protest generates media coverage - which does influence politicians. I've enough experience of jouro/photographer types to know that if this protest involved enough casually dressed, attractive types on bikes then it would make the papers. Obviously, that rules me out - but I'm sure you would be fine.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. And confirmed that Wednesday is parliament day. There won't be any ministers in St Andrew's House in the afternoon...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. Min
    Member

    Ah. Is someone able to get the message to them?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. Min
    Member

    Just googled St Andrew's House and I am rather impressed by the "how to get there" as walking and cycling is right at the top.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Contacts/General-Enquiries/Locations/St-Andrews-House-1

    Followed by public transport followed by:-

    Free parking is located an approximate 50 minute walk from St Andrew's House.

    Hehe.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. crowriver
    Member

    I can't say I'm entirely convinced that the Scottish Parliament came into being as a result of the vigil...

    Not directly, but it certainly influenced the siting of the Parliament away from the old Royal High building. As a result of being the focus of numerous demos and the vigil, the building had become, as the late Donald Dewar put it, "a nationalist shibboleth".

    The Labour party may have already decided on seeing through its original policy of the 1970s to complete devolution. I do remember though some really big demos in the early 1990s in favour of a Parliament (Scotland United comes to mind), that were addressed by figures who went on to head the Constitutional Convention which did bring about the Parliament with cross-party support in Scotland (excepting the Tories). So those demos I think certainly helped show there was public support for devolution and helped make the case and convince (mainly Labour) politicians.

    Whether pro-cycling demonstrations will have a similar impact is difficult to say, but I suspect not. However some of the stuff that is happening down in London is interesting, eg. the Blackfriars bridge protests and so on. It is getting people talking about cycling issues.

    Also Edinburgh has a tradition of successful direct action and protest in the area of reclaiming streets from cars: the Edinburgh Liberation Front managed to get Rose Street pedestrianised eventually.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. crowriver
    Member

    apparently on a Wednesday the ministers aren't there, they're all down at the parliament...

    If folk are mostly on bikes, then it would not be difficult to do a Critical Mass style perambulation down Regent Road, turn right at Abbeymount, down Abbeyhill to the Parly. This may indeed be what the organisers have in mind. If not, someone ought to suggest it!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. Well I let them know on Facebook that there won't be ministers there, and the response I've got has basically said "We've invited John Swinney to come out, and we hope to see you there."

    Invited John Swinney suggests they haven't got a commitment from him, and he may just be in the Parliament. Ah well, you try to help...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. Morningsider
    Member

    This is beginning to sound like a farce. If I was orgnaising it I would confirm when the Scottish cabinet is meeting that week (usually mid-afternoon on a Tuesday at Bute House) and get everyone to meet in Charlotte Square about 30 minutes beforehand. Every Cabinet minister has to walk in the front door of Bute House and would see the demo - which could involve cycling round the square plus a few non-flourescent (ahem) media friendly faces on foot at Bute House to interest the cameras (my non-camera friendly face obviously ruling me out).

    Still - what do I know.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. Min
    Member

    I must admit, protesting in front of non-existant ministers seems to me to be a bit of a waste of everyones time?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. Given one of the organisers has now started a thread here on this, and chdot has redirected them to this thread, it's probably worth re-iterating... If John Swinney doesn't turn up (have they got a commitment from him yet that he will?) then the protest will be to a building half-full of civil servants.

    As also pointed out, Transport is dealt with down at Victoria Quay; and the ministers will/should all be down at the Parliament.

    I like Morningsider's idea of Bute House. But whatever is done surely it's best to be protesting to the right people in the right place? I'll still go along, of course, but I wouldn't expect much in the way of engagement.

    (if John Swinney has accepted the offer to meet and speak then disregard this whinge).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    What about the big anti-war march in Glasgow? hard to tell. May have made governments less prone to interventions?

    We went on that as idealistic students. I didn't get the feeling that anyone in power took the blindest bit of notice as a result of it... Maybe I'm just a cynic?

    Okay I am a cynic.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. SRD
    Moderator

    Anth "Have the very public demonstrations by Fathers 4 Justice changed anything? (genuine question, I don't know much about family law or policy)"

    Exam I'm marking claims that they disbanded having achieved all their objectives. Now I'm going to have to go find out if that is true or not :(

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Yes, Fathers for Justice got them to bring the security at the Houses of Parliament out of the middle ages and into the 21st-ish century. Of course, this wasn't one of their stated aims.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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