CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

"Why I don’t cycle in Edinburgh"

(45 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Instography

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  1. Smudge
    Member

    I think sustrans build where they can, some routes are good for travel, some for recreation.
    For ( a route) example we convinced one of the girls at work to try commuting by bicycle because the wol allowed her to go from Colinton into the centre without the gauntlet running of the road down past the tennis courts towards Polwarth. It's not a bad route on a hybrid or tourer, though a bit muddy for a skinny tyred road bike.

    For every X people who get out and ride for recreation on Sustrans routes, a small proportion will enjoy it enough to ride more, discover they can cover surprising distances and become utility riders, some will never make that change, but if they're out for a family ride on bikes it may be instead of a family run in the car, less congestion for the motorists, fewer cars passing the cyclists, the family thinkinf of people on bikes as "like us" rather than "cyclists" etc etc. It all helps in a little, incremental way
    By small increments we've seen a mahoosive increase in the number of cyclists round Edinburgh, imho sustrans is one of the contributors to that change. I take my hat off to them (well I would if I was wearing one, and they were here... anyway, you get the idea!)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. wee folding bike
    Member

    It's right to encourage people to walk/cycle more - but a LOT more needs to be done to get people to be willing/able/confident etc.

    I would also say that it's right for people to eat less fat and more veggies but the Scottish Government campaign on that was judged to be a huge failure. I can't find any links to it but the one I have in mind was a few years ago and featured a guy on the phone except the phone was a fish. I'm really not convinced governments can do this mind changing thing.

    On the other hand I am seen to cycle every day and people ask me about it. Sometimes they tell me that they have had a go themselves or even just that they are thinking about it. I have converted people before but that was mostly when I lived in London. I don't proselytise, I just get places quickly and cheaply so I suppose London was a better showcase for the advantages. There is still only one kid in my school who cycles but at least the others see that it can be done. The big greenhouse shed at the side of the building lies empty.

    For the last decade or more governments have been authorising out of town shopping centres and sending us the message that we should go shop there. At least one MSP had (ahem) reasons of her own to do that involving a brown envelope and the developer of the Silverburn shopping mall (it was reported in many of the papers eventually). Even outwith that it sort of made sense for Renfrew to promote the Braehead complex because all the local taxation which might have gone to Glasgow now comes to them.

    Even I used to frequent the Fort (just off the M8 at Easterhouse) because they had a Jessops. I could upload photos to their web page and pick them up from the shop an hour later. Sometimes I cycled, sometimes I used the car and took kids with me. Since Borders, Blacks and Jessop closed I haven't been there much but if somewhere useful opened up I would probably use it again. It's fairly easy for me to get there from school as it's not as out of town as some others.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "

    If the ‘powers that be’ want us to be healthier, fitter and more environmentally conscious (using cars in city centres less) then it must be backed up with the ‘tools’ to do that. Cycling offers that opportunity but we also need road conditions that are suitable and for all abilities.

    "

    http://www.andrewcyclist.com

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    You wouldn't see this on a road (yet) -


    Busy - today!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. Dave
    Member

    To bring it back to the OP - I'm not sure I would recommend cycling in Edinburgh, not honestly. (As in, if my parents or sisters or someone like that came to visit, and we had spare bikes that fitted, I'd never consider suggesting we use them).

    Chatting amongst existing cyclists feels different, because they are people who put up with the dangers, and feel they are outweighed by the positives, so discussing strategy and incremental improvements is a different matter.

    For instance, at work I've suggested cycle commuting only to people who've done it before and are too lazy to get another bike, I've never suggested it to the others.

    For a huge proportion of people, sitting in a jam and paying through the nose for the privilege is still a big improvement over the experience they'd have riding a bike.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. Roibeard
    Member

    @Dave - I'm probably a bit more positive, having added visiting children to the family peloton.

    However, we'd aim to stick to the cycle paths - I can't say I've promoted commuting to non-cyclists either, just to existing cyclists. That said, I'm not really a cycling evangelist...

    Robert

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I thought of my own experiences after reading the original post.

    When I first started cycling in Edinburgh (3? years ago), the only bit of road that I would cycle is quickly rolling down the hill from Bruntsfield to canal then canal to Gyle and back again. Why? I had never cycled in a city in traffic and just didn't know what it would be like and how safe (or otherwise) it was. Just didn't have the confidence.

    It took me a long time to get bored and frustrated enough with using the canal to begin to venture onto the "other" cycle paths, which required the use of bits of road to join them together.

    Now I'm fit and wary and used to the tricks of drivers and can anticipate what's going to happen and take avoiding / preventative action I think back and wonder what I was worrying about. Then I remember that I was none of the former when I started out. I also think that it doesn't matter how fit you are and how many wits you have around you, you are still soft and vulnerable flesh and bones at the mercy of drivers. But I don't stop and give it another though as every day I read in the news about more drivers dieing or being seriously injured on the roads and think, in the grand scheme of things, cycling is actually fairly safe. No less safe than driving?

    For the record, I too have almost been flattened by a bus (which forum members with a long memory will recall was the original topic I started many months / some years ago)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. Uberuce
    Member

    I think my cycling was pretty lapsed when I got back on the bike last summer; hadn't been on a bike for a dozen years. I wasn't willing to mix it up with the heavy traffic for a couple of weeks. I'm fortunate in that there is a flat-job route for me that avoids all busy roads. I'm not sure if I'd have started if I was buried in the centre, so yep, I agree with Dave.

    I'm trying to get my Mum to cycle, but between weather and retired people's insanely busy social lives, it didn't happen this holiday. I wouldn't even have her go into sleepy old Forfar until she'd got her sea legs back, so to speak.

    Traffic's a machine, and like any other machine, you're best off familiarising yourself with the simplest version before moving up to the more complex.

    The housing estate across the road from our house, a set of cul-de-sacs liberally sprinkled with speed bumps and all under a 20mph limit is the equivalent of a fixie, and central Edinburgh is the inside of a Rohloff.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. steveo
    Member

    When i first (re)started I took a slightly circuitous route to avoid the right turn at junction with Saughton and Carrick Knowe however after that I was straight up to St Johns road and never really gave the moving traffic much thought, I'm still not entirely comfortable at that junction. However I did commute through from my evening job on George street every day for many years when I was at school and being an indestructible teenager I think I was confident enough with the traffic and I never really lost that.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    I fortunately jumped straight into city-centre cycling up here when I moved here when I was eighteen and careless less cautious than I am now (but still really quite cautious, especially for an eighteen-year-old), though it still took me a while to be anything less than terrified whenever I found myself somewhere like London Road or the big roundabouts towards Sighthill, partially also because I generally didn't know where I was, didn't yet know about the off-road escape routes and would often have to take detours based on where other traffic looked like it would let me go without squishing me when attempting to navigate multi-lane roads and junctions. With downtube-mounted gears. There were very few multi-lane roads where I came from but the biggest risk from cars was to be found around the narrowly-winding wee rural roads.

    Even back when Princes Street had railings at the side against which buses could attempt to scrape you with the impunity afforded by no CCTV and taxis could be simply sorted into 'very', 'highly' and 'considerably' types of dangerous according to whether or not they were occupied or painted white I never stopped cycling due to personal safety concerns or near-misses, though did give it a rest once or twice for a couple of weeks or months when I got sick of going out for nice relaxing rides only to be angered a few hundred metres from home by a moron cycling on the pavement or skipping a light.

    I tried to persuade my parents to give it a go (starting with the off-road paths, but not sticking exclusively to them) the last time they were up but they used the cold as an excuse, despite it being colder where they live and my mum being a former postie and them both still regularly cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    In 1980, as a boy of 13, I learned to cycle on the streets of a small mill town in the valleys of East Lancashire (after pottering in the garden and nearby pavements initially). Very steep hills, so I soon had to learn how to avoid parked cars at speed, be careful at junctions, appropriate signals, and how to brake! Also how to climb those damn hills again to get home. From age 16 I lived on a small island in Orkney, attending school in Kirkwall. Cycling was something to do in the holidays when it was not too windy. The roads were generally good, and quiet save for the odd car or tractor. The main hazard was letting your attention drift while taking in the views and possibly ending up in a roadside ditch - that and the occasional bull which had broken free of the field it was supposed to be contained within.

    As a student later on, I didn't use my bike much, as it was hundreds of miles away in Orkney until my final year. In retrospect I should have taken it with me to explore Tayside, Fife and beyond. I didn't even worry about not having a car: very few young people owned or used them in the 1980s. Everyone walked, took the bus, a few cycled.

    After university I moved back to my birthplace Edinburgh, initially living in rented flats in Marchmont and Morningside. I used my bike as it was the easiest and cheapest way to get around. The Meadows became a key route for me, but I never really thought about whether cycling on roads was a good idea or not. I had no idea there might be off road paths other than in the Meadows, so to get anywhere it was by road, naturally. I spent a few years living in London in the mid-1990s, where I was terrified of the traffic and did not cycle at all: when I left Edinburgh I left my old teenage years racing bike in the street outside my flat for someone to take.

    When I returned to Edinburgh in the late 1990s, I moved to the Easter Road area and bought a bike straight away. Again I used the roads as I still did not know any paths existed other than in the Meadows. Eventually in the early zeroes I became more aware of the existence of organisations like Spokes: I think I found their web site on the internet. Prior to that I had no idea Spokes, CTC, or other organisations existed, I was not into sports cycling and knew very few people socially who cycled so never heard about them.

    Buying a Spokes map changed my perceptions of what was possible dramatically. I became more conscious of quieter back street routes (though I knew a few of them anyway). I also discovered the Sustrans NCJN routes, which of course did not exist before the zeroes as they were a Millennium project. As I cycled more and got involved in Spokes, I learned about CTC and joined. Since those days I've met more experienced cyclists who have inspired me to take what I always viewed as just a mode of transport and turn it into a passion.

    I don't think I've managed to convert anyone to cycling with the exception of my wife and children (with variable success). I am aware of colleagues at work who cycle; others note that I cycle to work and sometimes ask about it. I tried to persuade one colleague to cycle to the station instead of driving or bussing it, and although he has a bike and was thinking about it, I don't think he ever bothered.

    Since the 1990s at least I've been aware that I'm part of a tiny minority who do not drive and cycle / use public transport instead. Relatives and friends have at least stopped being patronising about it and expecting me to change. I know that they look askance at me, think I'm slightly insane, maybe even feel sorry for me. I've tried telling them how wrong this view is, but there's now a sort of truce where the topic is just not discussed. They are in their motorised bunkers, and I'm in my pedal powered one.

    I'm proud to reclaim the identity of cyclist for myself and yes, I'm probably a bit of a born again evangelist on the subject. I fully intend to keep going with cycling as long as my health allows.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. ExcitableBoy
    Member

    I learned to ride in the early 70's as a child in Cardiff. From about 10 years old my friends and I would, without thought or concern, cycle on the major roads when necessary - this was never brought up as a concern by my (nor I doubt their) parents.I don't suppose they even knew.
    I went to university in Birmingham and could not afford a bike. You could buy an off-peak travel pass for bus and train covering the whole of the Midlands for £3.70 a fortnight!
    Then in 1987 in my early 20's I moved to London to work. I was toying with getting a bike, but hiring a new-fangled mountain bike on a trip to the Lake District meant I had to have one.
    Far fewer people cycled in London back then but I loved it. All the argy-bargy in and out of traffic was great fun and I never felt unsafe as average speeds were so slow.
    In 1992 I moved to Edinburgh and have cycled here throughout. I still mainly feel safe, but perhaps due to my age, do now feel uneasy at times. Not on the busiest roads, but the moderately busy, faster moving roads eg. Seafield road can be hairy at times with all the lorries flying past you at 40 mph. Also slightly wider roads, with lanes perhaps a car-and-a-half wide now make me feel uneasy, as if I take what I feel is a primary position, cars/lorries try to squeeze past anyway. I do not remember this being an issue in the past, so I'm not sure if I'm getting more wary, noticing it more, or if it's becoming more of an issue. The one place I really do not enjoy cycling is on A roads in the country - with traffic flying past you at 50 or 60 mph.
    I do try to convince some people to try cycling, as I think it has so much to offer. How much success I have had is uncertain. Both my children have been on bikes since they were able to hold their heads up and cycling themselves since they were 4 years old. However, my eldest daughter who is now 18 rarely cycles due to: fear of the traffic, the hills, concerns over sweatiness and image. My youngest daughter who is 16 does cycle, to get from A to B and for recreation. She is not concerned overly about traffic.
    I teach in a secondary school and the pupils all know this. Whilst I am not the only teacher who cycles there, the majority of the pupils think it is a strange thing to do. Most think that I would sooner drive but am too poor. They are astounded when I tell them that neither my wife or I have a car. They then often ask "do you go out for cycles at the weekends with your wife and children?" and think this is a hilarious idea. The vast majority are desperate to have learn to drive and have a car and a small number as soon as they are old enough do (obviously many more would if they could afford to). Maybe, just maybe however, a few as they get older realise that its an option and give it a try.
    More worryingly several of the people I work closely with are quite anti-cycling. They are supportive of me and others at work cycling and some do cycle themselves, on cyclepaths or at Glentress etc at the weekend - but, whenever I have been in the car with them: they moan at any cyclist they see and feel the roads are for cars, they're not much more tolerant of pedestrians! These people will never give up their cars. They moan about the way motorists are given such a raw deal, but they are far too cosy in their cars. Some moan about walking 20 yards across the carpark at work if there's a wee bit of east coast rain. They would never cope with: a hill, or the wind, or ..., or ironically the traffic.
    As Crowriver says I too am proud to,
    "..claim the identity of cyclist for myself and yes, I'm probably a bit of a born again evangelist on the subject. I fully intend to keep going with cycling as long as my health allows."
    I know also that if something were to prevent me from cycling I would miss it greatly and fear I would soon become miserable.

    [apologies for the length of this post]

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "apologies for the length of this post"

    No need. This is a very interesting/informative thread.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. Greenroofer
    Member

    And this doesn't really help encourage people to cycle either...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-16469477

    OK, it's not Edinburgh, but it's all part of the subliminal message that it's really dangerous everywhere.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. Instography
    Member

    I can't really tell but he appears to accelerate when the red car starts entering the lane, to hold onto it, because the car stops moving in and then he accelerates again to pass it, presumably turning round to fully express his opinion of the driver.

    I must confess, I always find head cam footage a bit dubious, like there's an element of creating the scenario.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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