Isn't it possible that the shift in cycling towards mainstream acceptance might come as a sudden shift in attitude; like a tipping point? And if it does, how likely is it that the current champions and proponents of cycling as an integrated experience are likely to be part of that shift? Is it not more likely that the move will be led instead by a theoretician (like Copenhagenize) with financial backing from investors? Because once all cyclists are herded into special facilities it will be an awful lot easier to extract cash from them. I say this because I'm a bit concerned at the increasingly strident views of the Copenhagenize lobby towards existing cyclists.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Brother can you spare a paradigm?
(36 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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Hmm. So far what we've seen is a very slow increase in people willing to participate in "fear culture" cycling (for want of a better term).
For my part, I'm not sure whether we'll just continue to see a very slow increase in the same, an explosion of people who want to dice with certain death using armfuls of personal protective gear, or whether we might see a 'new order' of cyclists who don't follow "the rules" established by their diehard precursors (you and I).
Posted 13 years ago # -
I dont't see there being a sudden upswing in the number of cyclists without some major event warranting it. London experienced a big increase in cycling after a terrorist attack on the public transport network and imposition of a congestion charge. Even then, cycling is still a minority mode of transport.
I wouldn't worry about us all being herded into some segregated cycle network, it isn't going to happen. I am surprised at the growing nuttines of the Copenhagen types - accusing "vehicular cyclists" of causing widespread death and destruction seems a tad unhinged.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's not all bad. I enjoyed this blog post about speed bumps/traffic calming.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Even then, cycling is still a minority mode of transport.
I'm pretty sure that more than 50% of vehicles passing inner London's bridges in rush hour are now bikes. Typically I can't find this on google though :(
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
Cyclists make up over 1/3 of traffic in morning on Blackfriars Bridge, more than private cars and taxis combined
This number is set to grow massively in the coming decade. Already 40% of morning traffic on London Bridge is bikes.
It's disgraceful the Mayor is allowing urban to stay in the middle of the city because they're extremely dangerous.
"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11769027
Posted 13 years ago # -
Honestly, I don't just make this stuff up. The breakdown of trips by main mode in London for 2010 is:
Public transport: 34%
Private transport: 41%
Cycle: 2%
Walk: 24%Statistics from TfL, Travel in London Report, Table 2.4, page 28:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/travel-in-london-report-4.pdf
Posted 13 years ago # -
Hmm, those are low figures. All the more reason for a new brush to sweep away the old ideas. I see a new dawn with Tesco sponsored cycleways, full of people who are being convinced by advertisers - who've also jumped on the bandwagon - that road cycling is for dinosaurs. Cyclists on BMW bikes and Mercedes bikes will scoff at anyone on something made by a bike company. No-one will be allowed to go fast of course, 10mph. So a lifetime's fitness won't count for much in the cycle-jams on the Tesco-paths going in to work.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Cyclists on BMW bikes and Mercedes bikes will scoff at anyone on something made by a bike company.
Who will in turn be ignored by those riding Ferrari bikes and Armani bikes.
To be honest I can't see most folk cycling, however much it is promoted. They like their comfy seats, their stereos, their air con, oh and there's the added bonus of being able to bully cyclists and pedestrians. Electric cars will be the new utopia: always close, but never arriving.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
David Hembrow (@DavidHembrow)
3/8/12 3:30 PM
@gnomeicide Dutch and British drivers are alike. In NL they're not where bikes are so you don't interact with them much. Feels much better."
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
Carlton Reid (@carltonreid)
3/8/12 3:46 PM
Taiwan has some of the best cycle infrastructure in the world, wider & better than NL. V lightly used cos not a full network."
Posted 13 years ago # -
Overall I agree with Crowriver. There will never be a widespread shift to cycling while it has the image it does (I'm thinking particularly of "to try and stay alive, I wear armour and a luminous suit", but actually I think that's also a symptom of the overall "out"-ness of cycling).
The money and political will required to 'fix' the roads simply doesn't exist, and we'll never make a popular activity over feeling unsafe, especially if it's more hassle than a safe option already available.
Posted 13 years ago # -
You would think that the price of petrol would push up cycle commuting a little. When the clocks go forward I anticipate an upsurge? There seems to be some expansion in retailers [in Edinburgh at least] - more people buying bikes to sit in garages? This all points to incremental small increases. If it was a political winner there would be more change.I am guessing the fear amongst politicians is that it is actually a vote loser [in edinburgh]. The motor industry also I imagine effective lobbysits and indeed employers [at least in Sunderland]
Posted 13 years ago # -
Agree with Gembo. In my ponderings I've come to the conclusion that in a decade or two a vegetarian activist and a cycling activist will be found propping up a bar somewhere, deep in the depression of stolen win; everyone else would by then be doing what they spent their lives advocating, but not for their proposed reasons.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The general agreement that whatever happens, happens slowly is starting to sound like a good thing, at least in my future prediction.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think that when petrol hits the £2 mark we'll see a real change!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Petrol prices have been over £2 since 1993. Oh, you meant litres, not gallons... About £6 a gallon on average just now, isn't it? Why then is fuel 'efficiency' still MPG, not KPL?
It's a bit like going to the deli counter at the supermarket: everything priced per 100g. Does anyone actually buy 100g of anything? Personally I still buy 1/4, 1/2 and multiples of lbs. 1/4 lb is approx. 250g...
Incremental changes, eg. inflation, mean that people don't notice them as much. Petrol prices, increased cycling, cost of cheese from the deli counter...
Posted 13 years ago # -
'Force of habit' I'd imagine.
When presented with an MPG figure without any reference point you can still determine whether it's good or bad. A KPL figure, for me at least, would need converted into MPG to be understood (until it had been used as an alternative for long enough for it to become its own reference point).
Posted 13 years ago # -
@anth, I was just trying to make the point that 'petrol at £2' may not change anything much, at least not straight away. Partly because the unit that costs £2 is much smaller than the unit that makes up MPG. If they still priced petrol in gallons, it would of course seem more expensive and there would be an easy to figure out relationship to distance covered per pound (between 4 and 5 miles for a BMW 3 series, for example). Which I suggest is partly why the petrol retailers went metric: petrol seems cheaper!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Aha, I get you. On a Friday afternoon I lose all sense of subtelty...
Posted 13 years ago # -
And speeling it would seam
Posted 13 years ago # -
Well I travelled through Edinburgh this lunchtime and there were loads of people of all types on bikes, and that is on a rather windy day in the "cold" season.
I am confidently expecting Edinburgh to be hoaching with cycles come the summer evenings :-)
I think we actually have passed at least one tipping point...
Posted 13 years ago # -
I couldn't comment on price of petrol really as almost all of the liquid I purchase comes in "pint" form and is imbibe-able.
I agree with smudge though that we are past a tipping point. One thing I've noticed is FAR fewer people cycling on the pavement around the west end since the roadworks went in. When they were first put up there was at least one or two a day I saw on the pavement. Now I've only seen people pushing. I think perhaps casual cyclists who never really thought about it have realised how disconcerting pedestrians can find it when you're cycling near them.
Posted 13 years ago # -
People in Edinburgh also love their cars more than people elsewhere. Even on this Fervent Cycling Forum, we all have at least one car [I know that one or two people don't have a car, but that is all].
I was in Stirling today and it was very easy to get to where I was going by bike (The Raploch) once I had alighted from the choo-choo. It will be good when it is possible to say this again in Edinburgh.
Posted 13 years ago # -
gembo - your point holds, but there are at least 4 of us who don't have cars: SRD, Laidback, Crowriver, Custard (i think it was custard...); possibly also Uberuce, kaputnik? Others?
Posted 13 years ago # -
If I had a car, I'd take it away from me. People with my reflexes and attention span shouldn't be allowed them. It's bad enough that they let me out on a bike, although since I am now no longer officially overweight* for the first time since 1997, I guess I'm less of a threat to other world users.
*Weighed myself yesterday and came in at 79.5kg wearing T-shirt and undies whilst full of lunch and needing a pee. If my maths is correct, my height of 1.78m means I'm BMI 25.09, so I'd sneak under on a nekkid dawn weigh. I can barely recognize the skeletal wraith that greets me in the mirror of a morning and I'm only just in accepted weight? Don't believe the hype, people. BMI is Guffasaurus Rex.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think we'll know a tipping point has been reached when people arrive at work on bikes saying that they hate cycling but they have to. Right now everyone here seems to do it because they like it.
Uberuce - did you have to paint such a h***ish mental picture in this forumites head?
Posted 13 years ago # -
SRD - that is better. Possibly, where we need to start. Everyone on the forum should get rid of their cars. ALso in America apparently less people have cars? Can this be true?
THat was me shouting at you outside your dept. the other morning. [wrong thread]
Posted 13 years ago # -
I'm not so sure that people love their cars at all. They certainly don't like the driving but they're not at all drawn to any of the alternatives. They used to say people would never recycle at the levels they do now yet somehow that argument has been won. Sure it's uneven but the rates of recycling have rocketed because the environmental argument was won, it became required at a government level and it has been made easier. Give them the space and they'll ride in it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@Tom, I don't know what you mean. Is my bladdery repleteness the issue, or is it the image of me astride a scale, clothed only in my own glory like a furrier Michaelangelo's David, that offends?
Posted 13 years ago #
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