I would have though someone who was a cyclist in the UK and Newcastle fan was by definition an optimist...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Speed guns at dawn
(96 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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[quote]Oi! My bikes are knitted from sustainable dust by Tibetan refugees paid a living wage so they can save up to buy back their country and transported on the backs of Himalayan snails fed on tofu to leave a zero carbon footprint.
[/quote][quote]
Really? I think one of mine is made from a rare metal which is open cast-mined at huge cost to be assembled by a chinese factory worker paid subsistence rates. It is then transported halfway across the world so that I can use it to save the environment.Posted 13 years ago # -
In this country there is a perception that riding a bike is the preserve of intolerant car-hating eco-fascists. [...] This is why a lot of 'car drivers' hate 'cyclists'
I truly doubt this. Britain is heavily populated by unmensch of all classes who are irrepressibly drawn toward castigating and demonising obvious outgroups like cyclists.
The tolerant attitudes often seen on the continent are another world from the insular attitudes of this little island, and its nothing to do with intolerance or eco-fascism on the part of cyclists.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yeah, but the point is, on the continent cyclists aren't an outgroup.
Posted 13 years ago # -
But Freewheelin, why would you be angry, you want the same aims as a large group of people on here, but then won't engage constructively with them because of some assumed slight about car use.
Surely if this group manage to affect change in the city/country then it will be you that benefits.
It's all wonderful if you want to take the statler and waldorf route, of effecting change by jeering from the sidelines, but just be aware that the people you're criticising are the ones who are getting things done.
POP is a perfect example of absolute non-corporate non-elitist in-group grass-roots activism. It's amazing to see this kind of thing flourish, and you know what, it would be progress getting people to sling a bike on the back of their BMW, park and cycle through town that the current status quo.
Freewheelin, if you want to affect change, just don't sit there in a huff and bitch about what everyone else isn't doing, join in.
Posted 13 years ago # -
There's an annual cycling rally on the streets of Berlin, late september. Its more political than anything we get here.
That doesn't make cyclists an outgroup over there, but it would here?
Doesn't stack up.
Posted 13 years ago # -
You put your out group in, your in group out,
In out, in out, shake it all about
You ride down Friedrichstraße and you turn around,
That's what it's all about, heiIt's good to ride in copenhagen,
It's good to ride in amsterda-am,
It's not so good in auld reeky
Potholes, mad cabs, ra ra ra.Posted 13 years ago # -
LOL
Posted 13 years ago # -
"... just don't sit there in a huff and bitch about what everyone else isn't doing, join in"
Join in with the bitchin'?
"I would have though someone who was a cyclist in the UK and Newcastle fan was by definition an optimist..."
Beaten out of me by successive false dawns (on both counts).
Posted 13 years ago # -
Argh! Missed Nelly's hug!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Anth, don't make me go all preachy on you. I've done it once today and still feel a little *dirty*.
Oh, sorry I meant *dorty*
Posted 13 years ago # -
Do people no longer do that thing where they lurk on a forum for a while before posting to get the feel of it?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Delighted to see so much enthusiasm for the idea! Sadly, for some of you, there would be an assessment of volunteers suitability which kind of rules out the vigilante approach - as explained to the journalist.
Seriously, this sort of initiative is working elsewhere but in Edinburgh it wouldn't just be aimed at speeding. We envisage it being used to tackle other road safety problems such as identifying drivers who don't respect the Advanced Stop Boxes, hazardous parking at schools and RLJing by drivers (and cyclists).
Posted 13 years ago # -
'hazardous parking at schools' I'm there!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Really it's just a formalisation of people reporting to the Police any criminal activity they see. The Police then take whatever action they feel appropriate based on the reliability or otherwise of the report combined with their own observation/investigation.
@freewheelin, no one is mocking you, or certainly no harder than we mock ourselves(!) You've popped up with a pretty extreme viewpoint, taken pops at a fair few people on here (who mostly cycle on a daily basis) and now appear to assume that we all move our bikes around on 4x4's!? I honestly started to wonder if you are another of incandescent's glove puppets trying to generate some anti-car hatred!
It is simply crazy to take the view that *all* car users are somehow evil and anyone who ever uses a car is not a "proper" cyclist. Life is simply not that black and white! However, all that said, come in, enjoy, please do attend PoP if you can, and maybe, just maybe you'll find we're not as bad as you appear to imagine.Posted 13 years ago # -
It really is a nice deterrent idea. Some of the EEN commenters haven't really got the point when they say the civvies won't be able to issue fines so what's the point. It WILL slow people down. That, straight away, is a benefit (especially when the police have said they won't enforce 20mph zones).
Posted 13 years ago # -
@winpig, depends if you consider "sound" to be the movement of air, or the electrical impulses caused when thatair movement causes your eardrum to move surely? :-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
PoP, yep I'll turn up im my BMW 4x4 with a bike rack, unload the bike ,ride the demo, then load the bike back onto the rack ! as if !!! :0((((
Well, it's a Vauxhall Zafira actually, but apart from that minor detail, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Me, partner and two weans, three bikes and a trailer. Perhaps I should make those kids ride the 15 miles to Edinburgh to save us from colluding with the car-centric society for the day.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I'm all for it, this community speed gun initiative.
Miscreant road users *should* be made to feel that their actions are unacceptably anti-social or downright dangerous, and finally ordinary people do have some power in the face of the typical impunity of the road abusers actions.
I appreciate the analogy with state informants but it doesn't bear any serious comparison, when you consider how dodgy our roads currently are.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Come the Revolution don't think their age will save them from the wrath of the cycling proletariat.
Posted 13 years ago # -
We'll make them walk to the re-education camps, that's a given.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I was musing on the idea of using some of my technically-now-begun fortnight of half days to take snaps of people who've driven into ASL's on the red. Not to send them to the polis, but just for...well, to put the wind up them for some socially conscious trolling, really. Not big or hard or clever, but possibly funny.
As said in the article, the mere sight of Person in Hi-Viz donkey jacket holding a radar gun will slow motorists down. Might be an idea to get some scarecrows in order? Must be plenty of knackered fluoro jackets and borked hairdryers kicking around.
Freewhwheeling, perhaps it would help us understand you if you listed the uses of motorised transport that you agree with, if any? And is your name Nick?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dragging us back on topic.. yep, unlike me, I know! In my defence, I've been out cycling and missed the thread!
Anyway, the police in Edinburgh already take this tack according to their FAQs - civilians monitor this sort of thing, report back to the police, they send out a letter, then if it's a repeat offender, send round officers to speak in person (but no fines, prosecutions).
The only difference is that currently that use civilians employed by the police (community support, or whatever the name is in Edinburgh).
All that's being proposed is extending this to volunteers.
All to the good, given the anarchy out there, and the lack of police resources (or prioritisation of "more important" things).
Oddly enough, there are no comments at the moment on the article, and no ability to comment!
Robert
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Jim Eadie, SNP MSP for Edinburgh Southern, criticised the community speed watch proposal, included in the Liberal Democrat manifesto for next month’s council elections, as “half-baked”."
Posted 13 years ago # -
The comments in the press from most of the other politicians were unsurprising - we are after all in an election period. Contrast this with the support of those very same parties for similar schemes elsewhere in the country. For example,
Southampton Conservatives 2012 manifesto, 'We continue to support the Community SpeedWatch initiative to help reduce speeding traffic in the city.' or
Portsmouth Labour Party, "Portsmouth Labour Promotes Community Speedwatch".
If you are looking for examples closer to home look at what's happening in Fife, where the SNP are the largest political group and run the Council, with the Lib Dems, "the Community Speed Watch partnership provides another valuable approach towards educating and detecting offending drivers' declares the Fife Council website.
The truth is this idea has been working well across the UK for years; helping to reduce speed, educate drivers, target repeat offenders and make the roads safer. Surely that's something on which all parties should unite as has happened in Devon where all parties Lib Dems, Conservatives, Greens and Labour have backed it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The Evening News editorial supports the proposal.
"This scheme gives people the tools to act. If it is carefully managed and organised the outcomes can be positive for all."
Posted 13 years ago # -
I'm not sure I fully understand the goal behind this community speed gun initiative.
Is it to act as a deterent to drivers speeding or to get better data on where, when and whom?
Whenever you see the police doing this it is remarkable how obvious it is that everybody is driving more slowly, having seen their hi-viz jackets from a distance. I'd like to see it done more covertly, catch all those people doing 55mph in a 30mph.Posted 13 years ago # -
Ooh there must be an election coming...
But Gordon is right - things like this really shouldn't be 'party' political - especially if it/similar has worked elsewhere with cross-party support.
I can't quite see all 'concerned citizens' being issued with speed guns, but it would be nice to have a reliable mechanism to report things and have the confidence that the police would take them seriously.
Issues that often get raised on this forum include too close passing - it would be useful (for the police) to know if there were serial offenders - and bad junctions/roundabouts, useful to have some stats before there's an 'accident'.
It's very good that the EN is prepared to back this. It's a long held belief that the paper usually gets 'outraged' when motorists are disadvantaged.
Things can change - Times campaign, new EN editor, PoP?
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
Fife Police (@FifePolice)4/10/12 11:46 AM
Volunteers in #Dunfermline are giving up their time to help make roads in West Fife safer with Community Speed Watch.
"
Posted 13 years ago # -
"I'd like to see it done more covertly, catch all those people doing 55mph in a 30mph."
I'd like to see it done overtly. Have people not driving at 55mph in a 30mph...
Posted 13 years ago #
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