Perhaps, in a high end racing sense.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/14/british-cycling-world-beaters
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
"How Britain became a cycling nation"
(23 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Or perhaps it's really true(?)
"On yer bike: How cycling won round a nation" -
"Broader than a sport and more than a hobby, it’s a lifestyle"
http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/features/on-yer-bike-how-cycling-won-round-a-nation-1-2412573
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Ronde (@Rondebike)
15/07/2012 08:51
After our party last night an interview and photos about @Rondebike and cycling culture in @ScotonSunday today!!
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Posted 12 years ago # -
I think two cycle themed pubs should get a mention too! Although Ventoux a bit of a mixed bag. Lots of bikes parked out front though :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
"mixed bag"
Saddle or courier?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hen party + middle aged prosperous types + trendy young androgynous folk + a few cyclists.
Posted 12 years ago # -
It was friday night! :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
I was in the Ventoux yesterday afternoon - expected to struggle to get a seat with the Tour on the telly, but it was gloriously half-empty. Good wheat beer selection (just entices you to try a range - had a day off gluten freeness) and those who were in were definitely there to watch the cycling.
Sat underneath a gorgeous Colnago that started me devising ways in which it could be detached from the ceiling and snaffled out unobserved.
OT, saw that article yesterday (had bought the Observer for the Food Monthly, then just read all about the cycling) - interesting to see the evolution, and the idea that the sporting success has lead to more people on bikes (I make no comment on whether that is actually the case or not).
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I make no comment on whether that is actually the case or not"
Don't be shy!
I think this is quite important.
'We' just want more people on bikes, more often.
(So does the Sunday Times)
Does spending on sport (e.g. Team GB) have cost effective spin-offs - can it be measured?, Should it be?
Does Pedal for Scotland create ('enough') daily cyclists?
Do Sustrans paths encourage more people to drive their bikes? (Likewise Glentress etc.)
Can all this interest in bicycles (even 'just' at the elite end) make a positive difference?
Can closed roads (with or without tacks) make people think - in a good way?
As Min said this morning about the Broughton Street area -
"Seems that most drivers are avoiding the area which is fine by me."
Of course the diversions around York Place were only 'made possible' by 'losing' parking spaces. Will end-on parking be allowed to return to Albany Street??
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Don't be shy!"
Avoiding arguments ;)
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Avoiding arguments ;)"
'We' don't have arguments - just discussions...
I'm sure 'we' can avoid 'all sport good/bad' discussions!
I suppose part of a discussion could be along the lines of 'is high end cycle sport success - and the positive press spin-off - 'a good thing'?'
Also perhaps consideration of 'if all these 'new cyclists' discover what the reality on the roads is like will they give up or demand better?'
There is of course another angle (well known to many CCEers) that a lot of new/returning cyclers also own cars - is this a significant/important factor?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Discretion, valour, etc etc etc.
'We' certainly don't have 'arguments', but I seem to attract them these days (even from the most sanguine of, say, Facebook posts that then becomaes some sort of 'oh you really think so, how stupid can you be' response from unlikely sources, and then, admittedly, I jump in with both feet). Better off not getting involved/starting by repeating possibly non-fact based statistical corollaries that lead to 'debates' on whether sports cycling gets people cycling more, or if it's dressing as if you're in Copenhagen.
All good for the blood pressure (as there have been numerous things in the last week that I've bit my lip on, even one this very morn, and feeling more relaxed for it).
Posted 12 years ago # -
"feeling more relaxed for it"
Aye, sometimes self preservation comes first.
"Better off not getting involved/starting by repeating possibly non-fact based statistical corollaries that lead to 'debates' on whether sports cycling gets people cycling more, or if it's dressing as if you're in Copenhagen."
I know exactly what you mean.
I suppose I'm wondering if current cyclesport success (with perhaps more in the Home Counties Olympics) can/will make a difference in a UK/Scotland/Edinburgh sense without influence from/reference to Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc??
Posted 12 years ago # -
If the Scottish Government came out with a plan to meet its target of 10% of journeys by bike that involved sponsoring Graeme Obree's land speed record, I'd say they were bonkers. In that sense, I don't think elite sport creates more cycling.
But kids emulate sporting heroes. I'd be all for making elite cyclists sporting heroes.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wonder if Strava et al are blurring the line between commuting and racing, rather than just encouraging fast commuting and additional extra non-commuting segment-targeting journeys? Is it something which would help to draw people in to cycling in conjunction with national sport-cycling successes, or is it only really visible to existing cyclists?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"or is it only really visible to existing cyclists?"
yes imo, and a small sub-set of cyclists at that!Posted 12 years ago # -
<warning - this post turned into a bit of an epic...>
I can definitely see the link between SkyRide and sporting successes with increases in recreational or sport cycling. With regard to sport, I'd guess it to be fairly well established that success breeds success, or even coverage breeds greater participation - how many folk wave a tennis racket around during June?
The sport governing bodies are trying to move away from supporting just the elite athletes, and pushing "sport for life", or recreational sport, recognising that they need mass participation to cream off the elite, and that the fun, well-being and health benefits shouldn't be restricted to the top few.
More cynically, they probably also realise that they can't continue to receive public funding unless they impact the public as a whole...
However, I don't know that recreational cycling leads to utility or everyday cycling.
Why would someone who enjoys Glentress, spontaneously decide to travel to work or the shops by bike, particularly if that increases their risk by 30 times?
Or what has the group ride (chaingang or SkyRide) got in common with solo road riding? The former has safety in numbers, and possibly a risk assessed route, with "bodyguards" front and rear; the latter has you on your tod, adopting a road position that isn't in the Highway Code [1], isn't understood by motorists, yet is (rightly) the recommended position to take.
Here we can't draw confidence by comparisons with other recreational activities or sports - as Obree so succinctly puts it "You don't football down the shops"...
So, I'm back to my foot in all camps position (I promise that I'm more opinionated about most other things!) - increases in recreational cycling are great. Sporting success is great. Road Clubs are great. Touring is great. Vehicular cycling is great. Increased motorist awareness is great. Sustrans is great. Bikeability is great. Mountain biking is great. Danny, Graeme, Mark and Chris are from another planet, and great. Bike Polo is great. Yet...
Yet that's not enough, we need the step change to see everyday cycling made subjectively (and objectively) safer, and that's going to require something different than what has happened before, and funding that's not been previously announced.
Hence PoP and the Cycling Embassy are heading in the right direction, not more of the same (great as it is), but something fundamentally and qualitatively different...
Robert
[1] Why on earth aren't motorists taught the primary position?Posted 12 years ago # -
That was a nice read Robert. Thanks. The Vole O'Speed blog is good too, although I disagree with the logic of his calculation of 30 times more dangerous (but not enough to go to the effort of explaining why). 20 times seems plenty without over-egging it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I know someone who lives 4 miles from her work.
She spends all her weekend wearing full body armour hammering around off road things.
As far as I know she has cycled to work once. She didn't seem to enjoy it. I don't really understand why.
I don't watch any sport, read about it or have any interest in sport, well I might find the current football shenanigans entertaining in a dark way.
I cycle to work every day. Other people find it hard to understand why I leave a perfectly good car sitting in the drive.
I'm not sure what this means but the TdF never made me want to ride my bike more. I do have a racing bike and it's nice to ride but not useful for getting messages.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@wfb
Perhaps your offroading associate imagines she is in control of her danger-involving destiny.
Onroad she is at the mercy of many others(?)
Posted 12 years ago # -
can/will make a difference in a UK/Scotland/Edinburgh sense without influence from/reference to Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc??
I'm all for continental influences... certainly Swedish influence is good at PY!
When some (adult) people look at non-standard bikes they just pile up negatives... risk... image... etc, etc. They're children are always interested of course as they can imagine a different future. You often see the parents climbing back into their car handily parked outside the shop shaking their heads! (They use the parking space we don't need... so they actually should be very glad;-)
Right now I think we're on a collision between people fighting to keep a broken status quo and a future full of unknowns. Part of this will be current bad weather increasing food costs and driving up holidays in the sun etc. Airport here has never been busier. People with money are mobile.
I'd say that reducing energy use by using human power is the way to improve so many things for many more people. 'Extreme' machines like the velomobile make people ask 'why?'. If we continue to have summer days of gale force wind and rain then maybe such items are logical - or a response to extreme conditions?
Meanwhile owning a car with a roof rack has become a necessity if a family is to use its budget wisely - according to recent survey.
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Tim Lennon (@lucullus)
14/07/2012 17:52
@allpartycycling Seems more like 'How Britain became a nation buying £1k bikes ...' Which is progress, but hardly mass cycling, sadly."
Posted 12 years ago # -
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SCPHRP (@SCPHRP)16/07/2012 21:56
If the Mirror says so... 'On yer bike! Has cycling finally become the cool way to get around?' http://mirr.im/Q042oI #cycling
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Posted 12 years ago # -
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Scott Dougal (@scottdougal)
03/01/2017, 09:42
@BBCJohnBeattie Our research shows that the Sky-British Cycling partnership got 1.7m people more active but that was whole package... elite success combined with grassroots programmes."
Posted 8 years ago #
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