CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News

Edinburgh traffic not really that bad...

(18 posts)

No tags yet.


  1. steveo
    Member

    Next time you complain about being stuck in traffic, spare a thought for the drivers in Brazil's biggest city, which has some of the worst congestion problems in the world.

    Friday evenings are a commuter's worst nightmare in Sao Paulo.

    That's when all the tailbacks in and out of the city extend for a total of 180km (112 miles), on average, according to local traffic engineers, and as long as 295km (183 miles) on a really bad day.

    Red brake lights stretch as far back as the eye can see, blinking repeatedly as drivers endure an exasperating stop-and-go journey, which can continue for hours.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19660765

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "
    drivers endure an exasperating stop-and-go journey, which can continue for hours.

    "

    Is this a definition of insanity?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. steveo
    Member

    At some point it must be quicker to walk no matter how far you've got to go. The price of demonstrating you are middle class I suppose.

    This phenomenon seems to be on the wane in the UK. I wonder how much of bell curve the car ownership = not poor relationship describes over the long term.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The price of demonstrating you are middle class I suppose.

    This phenomenon seems to be on the wane in the UK.

    "

    I think this forum is some proof of that.

    People here may or may not own cars, (and may or may not consider themselves to be middle class), but (I suspect) most don't have to worry about 'what other people think' because cycling to work is a new norm - at least in Edinburgh.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. steveo
    Member

    I often wonder how unusual Edinburgh is. Even for the UK the public transport is adequate at worst and the traffic really is never that bad. Coupled with the inner couple of miles being mostly very high density housing and that its a very compact city meaning that even when cycling was in a trough walking was always considered normal. I wonder if this lead to car ownership not necessarily being a priority in Edinbugh even when it seemed that was all that really mattered in other parts of the country.

    Maybe my experiences are a little skewed as my Mum has never driven so I grew up getting the bus and walking around place, well once we moved back from Penicuik.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    5 lanes of solid traffic each direction. A point in case for "if you build the road, they will fill it with cars".

    Just one lane-width for a cycle lane... If only.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    I wonder if this lead to car ownership not necessarily being a priority in Edinbugh even when it seemed that was all that really mattered in other parts of the country.

    I remember various statistics being bandied around in the 1990s that Edinburgh had one of the highest car ownership rates in the UK per head of population*. That despite it being an eminently walkable/cyclable city. Maybe things have changed since then, but I somehow doubt it, the rest of the country has just caught up/taken over...

    Maybe my experiences are a little skewed as my Mum has never driven so I grew up getting the bus and walking around place

    Possibly. I can't think of anyone in my family except myself who does not own a car.

    * - this was often cited as evidence of Edinburgh's prosperous professional classes.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. Min
    Member

    "No city in the world will ever manage to end congestion because when traffic flows, people are drawn to their cars. The key is to find a balance, the point at which it is worthwhile for commuters to use public transport because it's faster then driving," he says.

    "That way Sao Paulo needs urgently to invest more in public transport instead of building new roads and expressways that will only be filled up with more cars."

    Genius bit of insight there..

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. crowriver
    Member

    Oh yes, and "non-car ownership" is an officially approved measure of so-called "multiple deprivation" (used in the Census).

    http://cdu.mimas.ac.uk/related/deprivation.htm

    So, if the government officials believe not owning a car = deprived, we can't be surprised if most other folk think so too.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    There's also this from ten years ago:

    The transport situation in Edinburgh
    Transportation is probably one of the highest profile issues in Edinburgh at present. It has an impact on the city’s economy, society, environment and quality of life and on the health, safety and prosperity of all those who live, visit and work in and around the city.

    Over the past 20 years, growth in car ownership and car use has caused traffic levels on some of the main city roads to increase by up to 60%. In Edinburgh and the central belt of Scotland, over a 10-year period, car ownership levels have risen by 57%, compared with a national growth rate of only 29%. This increase has, in turn, caused significant increases in traffic congestion, parking problems and air pollution at key city locations.

    Transport routes, particularly roads, radiate in towards the city centre, which acts as a transport hub. An outer by-pass circles the east, south and western boundaries of the city, but there is neither a northern by-pass nor a recognised inner ring road for vehicular traffic. In turn the central area is coming under considerable pressure from cars, lorries and buses, many of which are entering the central area unnecessarily as part of through journeys.

    City residents, businesses, and visitors suffer as a consequence and, if not brought under control, the recent economic success and the physical attractiveness of the city could be compromised. There is simply not enough space, in Edinburgh, for everyone who wants to travel by car and park at their desired destination. It is essential that the limited space available is prioritised and that everyone who lives, visits, or works in Edinburgh is able to travel within, as well as to and from the city, quickly, cheaply, and safely.

    The resolution of the many issues relating to transport and traffic in the city is probably the biggest challenge facing the City of Edinburgh Council. It is essential that all that is best in the city’s heritage, townscape, and setting is conserved for the benefit of this and future generations. The challenge is for the city to adapt to ensure that it remains successful. Change can be introduced in a way that is consistent with and sensitive to the city’s heritage, and in a way that will enhance the quality of the city’s environment. The Local Transport Strategy, adopted by the Council in October 2000, recognises those challenges and proposes a plan that could instigate the necessary change.

    http://www.progress-project.org/Progress/edin.html

    One of the 'solutions' in the LTS was.....a three line tram network, and (much further down the list of priorities) a "city-wide cycle route network".

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. fimm
    Member

    That article closes with "Tell us your stories of commuting through heavy traffic, using the form below. A selection will be published." Time for someone to post Magnatom's video of filtering through masses of cars? Plus lots of other smug cyclists...

    How far to we reckon the woman in the article is driving? 6, 7 miles each way? Very cyclable if so.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. Min
    Member

    You are probably not in much danger from the vehilces since they aren't moving but the pollution would be extremely unpleasant.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. steveo
    Member

    More danger of being mugged, stabbed or shot in Sao Paulo.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. Min
    Member

    The article mentions the crime rate but surely all of those captive car drivers are more of a target?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. cb
    Member

    "How far to we reckon the woman in the article is driving? 6, 7 miles each way? Very cyclable if so."

    I reckon about 18km each way:

    http://goo.gl/maps/EIRt4

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. steveo
    Member

    The article mentions the crime rate but surely all of those captive car drivers are more of a target?

    Maybe but we know how insular cars can make people. People probably feel safer inside their car than they would walking. Although 36km would be a bit of a hike, eminently ridable of course.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. AKen
    Member

    An 18km cycle through the smog and sub-tropical heat of South America's largest city could be quite unpleasant, I reckon. On the other hand, if it was cutting an hour off your commute each way then it might be more appealing and, for a lucrative sideline (as Min points out above), you'd be able to rob all the car drivers on the way home with no fear of pursuit.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. fimm
    Member

    Ah, true. We can't all have the delightful weather we in Scotland are experiencing right now...

    Posted 12 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin