If there is a Zebra crossing in the approach to a roundabout would you stop in the middle of it, while waiting to join the roundabout?
Highway Code Rule 168: In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear. However, sometimes the crossing are very close to the junction and it can be more difficult for cyclist to judge.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Stopping on Zebra crossings
(18 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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I know that roundabout and it is a stupid way to put the zebra crossings. When driving it is bad too.
No I would have pulled forward as there is clearly enough space between zebra and the passing trafficPosted 13 years ago # -
On further investigation I find that the Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997 (or ZPPPCRGD for short) regs 18 give that:
Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles on crossings
The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.However, regs 20 give that:
Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles in controlled areas
20. - (1) For the purposes of this regulation and regulations 21 and 22 the word "vehicle" shall not include a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached to it, whether or not additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle.So it is OK.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Although would traffic on the roundabout be something which meant the driver was, "... prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control"?
It's all in the crossing positioning really - much safer for traffic to enter a roundabout from a standing start from right at the line (cars and bikes etc) rather than a few yards back.
Quite a good leaflet though - I'm glad to see it suggesting you shouldn't hug the edge of the roundabout (given it's clearly aimed at novice cyclists, and given the Highway Code suggests it's something you can do...)
Posted 13 years ago # -
What an excellent leaflet. Almost like it was written by a cyclist rather than a town planner!
PS Anth, the HC's default position is to ride around as if you were a car. It simply advises *if you do* choose to go round the outside, to be aware of the extra dangers you are exposed to (read the rule again, you'll see it's so - no 77 I think).
It's a myth that the HC recommends riding round the outside, in fact the only problem with it that I can see is it doesn't contain an actual warning against doing so (a "you should not"). Considering they see fit to advise you not to take one foot off the pedal, for example, this is an odd risk assessment.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"You may feel safer walking your cycle round on the pavement or verge. If you decide to ride round keeping to the left-hand lane you should
* be aware that drivers may not easily see you
* take extra care when cycling across exits. You may need to signal right to show you are not leaving the roundabout
* watch out for vehicles crossing your path to leave or join the roundabout"The advice on keeping the left hand lane is really not a good idea. That said Rule 76 says:
"Full details about the correct procedure at roundabouts are contained in Rules 184–190. Roundabouts can be hazardous and should be approached with care."
Which is in effect saying treat it the way you would if you were driving. Better advice would be to read Chapter 9 of Cyclecraft.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yep, rule 77 is in addition to the detail already given on the general roundabout section.
The HC specifies how we should all negotiate roundabouts (184-190) but, under additional advice for cyclists, that you may feel safer walking around, and *if* you decide to cycle around in the left hand lane, watch for the extra dangers associated with that...
It's not recommending using the 'edge of death' but adding extra warnings for those who (for historical reasons?) think that's the way to do it.
I'd like to know who ever thought it was a good idea to go around the outside of roundabouts though. Surely just the first time you tried it would convince you it was a good way to be knocked off?
It probably doesn't help that as cyclists, we've created our own urban myth around the wording of this rule, which could be clearer ("Be aware of these extra hazards if you decide to ride round in the left-hand lane" would have been much clearer, and not changed the meaning at all).
Posted 13 years ago # -
The council painted cycle lanes around the outside of the roundabout at the bottom of Broughton Street some time ago. They probably thought this was 'helpful' as it was a dangerous junction (still is).
I was once told by an irate ENews driver (must have delayed him for about a second) that I should have gone round the outside.
When the road was resurfaced the lanes weren't reinstated. Strangely no-one complained about this 'loss of cycle facility'.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Sorry Dave, I should have been clearer. I wasn't suggesting that the HC recommends we ride round the outside, as I'm fully aware that is not the case.
In saying "the Highway Code suggests it's something you can do..." I was merely pointing out that the HC says that riding round the roundabout is an option that cyclists might wish to take and doesn't then shout out BUT DON'T DO IT! which in my mind it really should do, rather than then offering ways in which you might make it a slightly less dangerous thing to do.
(a bit like saying "when viewing a stampeding rhinocerous some viewers may prefer stading directly in front of it, if you decide to do this you should know that rhinos are generally better avoided to the left side than the right")
(sorry if that reads combatitively, I didn't want to be lumped in with the urban myth creators as this is something I generally try to avoid, and indeed debunk - I reckon saying the HC suggests it's something you can do is a bit different to me saying the HC recommends doing it).
Posted 13 years ago # -
You may have guessed I don't like being misquoted or misinterpreted... ;)
Posted 13 years ago # -
What if I decide to ride a rhinocerous round the roundabout?
Posted 13 years ago # -
"What if I decide to ride a rhinocerous round the roundabout?"
They are programmed to go round the wrong way so you might get into trouble.
Posted 13 years ago # -
You may have guessed I don't like being misquoted or misinterpreted... ;)
Wait, you don't..? ;-)
I agree completely, the Highway Code should just say "you should not ride around the outside of a roundabout unless you intend to take the first exit. If a cycle lane has been painted around the perimeter, you should not use it."
But I'm not holding my breath. (Around Dumfriesshire they love their cycle lanes around the outside of roundabouts, very odd).
Posted 13 years ago # -
One of the major problems with the HC is that the advice for cyclist has largely been written by non-cyclist with the intention of keeping them out of the way of motorist. :-(
Posted 13 years ago # -
I've noticed that as well, Dave, that certain areas seem to have a love affair with lanes round roundabouts. Always cringe when I see them and try to imagine what it must be like turning right and using such a lane...
Posted 13 years ago # -
I would sincerely like to organise a session where town planners / engineers are given bikes, and made to negotiate such roundabouts at rush hour. I think it almost amounts to criminal negligence to put such a layout into practice.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I would sincerely like to organise a session where town planners / engineers / Councillors are given bikes and made to negotiate all cycle facilities at rush hour. I think it almost amounts to criminal negligence to put many of these layouts into practice.
Nominations now open for the cycle facility you would most like to force a town planner / engineer / Councillor use repeatedly during rush hour.
Posted 13 years ago # -
On the flip side, I'd quite like to ride with them down from Princes St, around the roundabout and onto Leith walk. A less difficult thing to achieve by bike is hard to imagine (assuming you can master the basic idea of not going until there's a gap, that is).
Posted 13 years ago #
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