@Min & Roibeard, agreed :-(
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Cycling accident and discussion
(48 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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@Min I would definitely cycle a lot more if I wasn't scared and I AM scared. I just do it anyway.
You may be giving permission to express vulnerability on this point!
Yes, I admit it, I'm also scared - I drop the kids off at school and feel my heart rate rise before I set off as an unprotected commuter (the kids create a bit of a protective bubble).
We've had others admit to being scared by an everyday, ordinary manoeuvre, turning right...
I'm Robert and cycling scares me (sometimes).
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
*applauds*
I drop the kids off at school and feel my heart rate rise before I set off as an unprotected commuter
I get a sick feeling in my stomach before I set off on my bike every time. The intensity rises and falls according to how many near misses I have had recently but it is always there.
I reckon the day when that does not happen is the day we have become a cycle friendly nation.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"...once people do it for a few months/years it becomes so automatic that you don't even think about it..>"
...after which you find something else to adopt, practise and ingrain. It's only in the past few years that I've re-started properly checking behind me every time I need to stop in freely-moving traffic in case there's something behind me which might not be able to stop as quickly as me (or which might not have been planning to bother to stop, when the reason to stop is a junction or set of lights rather than a stationary heavy object). I've now built it into my repertoire of things-I-try-to-always-do. Before that the most recent thing I started deliberately improving was increasing the obviousness of my shoulder-checking, most recently partly due to making sure that the hat-cam caught a glance of what was behind me (and hopefully to allow things behind me to notice me noticing them) but also due to the perceived usefulness of directing the beam of my head-mounted light towards anyone whom I would like to have noticed my presence at junctions at night. Before that it was doing the eye-contact-with-things-behind-you-at-junctions thing, mostly so that I had a better idea of what might be steaming past me as soon as it got into gear after the lights changed.
Posted 12 years ago # -
'I get a sick feeling in my stomach before I set off on my bike every time'
In that case you (and RB) get kudos for riding every day!
I may be in a minority, but I dont even think about it until/unless an incident occurs.
I definitely get more stressed opening the car door, perhaps its because I know I will be in a traffic jam watching bikes sail past !
Posted 12 years ago # -
When I worked at Chesser House I would have to turn right across Gorgie Road to get into the carpark/bike stands. The traffic along there is usually busy and sometimes I would be sitting in the right hand lane with my right arm out waiting for a gap for quite a while. Sometimes a vehicle in the right hand lane of the opposite carriageway would flash me across. I would never proceed unless I was sure the left hand lane was clear too. On several occasions the driver who flashed me would flash me two or three times and gesture to me to move, and I would point at the left hand lane, they would check their mirrors and realise why I wasn't moving. Every now and again I would see a driver check the left mirror and then flash me across which was always nice - nice to know some people think more broadly about people's safety.
But, I would never start the turn until I was sure both lanes were safe. The motorist in this situation should have done the same.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I have to confess I don't feel afraid getting on the bike to cycle in town/traffic, (although individual incidents/people certainly do frighten me!) strangely I actually enjoy riding in heavy traffic, the heavier the better.
Hats off to those who ride scared though :-/OT, if any lurkers who are unhappy/inexperienced in traffic would like to, I'd be more than happy to do a demo ride to a coffee shop/pub then bore the pants off you about why I ride where/how I ride, primary& secondary position etc etc :-) as I'm sure would some other city riders on here.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Lots of good comments, find myself agreeing with much...
I've taken the attitude over the years that I just have to make myself as noticeable to traffic as possible without putting myself in harms way (if that's at all possible), and just try to be aware of everything that could be a possible hazard (if that's also at all possible). Lots of checking over shoulder, obvious signalling, keeping distance from rows of parked cars etc (the usual?). Sometimes I just have to admit defeat and hang back, take the safest option, even if it's inconvenient. Hard-won experience over the years, I guess.
Should I have to do it? It would be nice not to.
Would new cyclists be put off by such effort? I hope not, though we are sharing the road with lots of potential hazards and we have to be aware of them.
How to make it easier/safer for new cyclists (or indeed older hands)? All the discussions on this forum and elsewhere that lead to campaigns, awareness etc.
I'm a newbie to this forum, so haven't read all the posts yet so might be repeating stuff already done to death ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
For me, the main problem with arguing that people are responsible for being knocked off because they didn't ride defensively enough is that it's heavily elitist.
I think it's fair enough to say that, for those of us who know the score, taking a chance that others will obey the law may be unwise, but if we ever want to have a situation where Joe Public's Granny can get on her shopper and pedal off down the bingo, we can't expect her to acquire ninja hazard perception as a prerequisite.
In true CCE vaguely-applicable analogy style: if you get a green man but are hit crossing the road, few people would argue that you were half responsible because you failed to cross defensively enough (although it's quite possible that a veteran road crosser would have avoided being run down by taking greater care over the whole green man situation)
Posted 12 years ago # -
This is worrying - I agree totally with everything Dave said in the above post....
Posted 12 years ago # -
I didn't see anyone saying that anyone was responsible for being knocked off for not riding defensively enough.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
I'm a newbie to this forum, so haven't read all the posts yet so might be repeating stuff already done to death ;-)"Yet"!!!???
Even I haven't read all the posts on here.
I have read most posts - on the day they were posted.
It's actually remarkable how infrequently topics are "repeated".
There are always common themes - state of the roads, drivers etc. etc. Usually there is a 'new angle' which justifies a new thread.
Very occasionally there are genuinely 'we've discussed that before' threads - but then someone links to previous thread (in a helpful way).
The great thing about CCE is that it has collected a remarkable bunch of people who like cycling and genuinely want to encourage others to want to/enjoy too.
Some are 'just' commuters others take part in a range of leisure/sport activities - usually as well rather than instead of.
Some people post almost every day - which is great to have that sort of 'loyalty' - but I really think the fact that quite a few people have joined CCE to post something of particular concern to them and then post nothing for another six months is a sign of how useful/useable it is.
So don't worry about 'I'd better not post because it's so obvious it must have been mentioned before'.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Since doing Pedal on Parliament I've heard from loads of people how the fear does put them off - even people who've been cycling quite regularly or who cycle off road on on Sky rides. When I cycled in London there were times when I didn't want to get on a bike because it was too scary. You change your route, you get off and push, or sometimes you just hang up the bike shed keys and give up. You don't have to get hit, you just have to have had a nasty near miss, or know someone who got hit, or witness an accident. And the ripples spread out - someone who's been scared off their own bike won't want their kids, partner or family to ride. The end result is very few actual cyclists, not just as a proportion of journeys but as a percentage of the population.
As it happens, I'm a terrible driver (and terrified I'll hit someone) so I feel more in control when I'm cycling especially now I live somewhere where traffic is light and there's not much in the way of an alternative. So I cycle, but there are places I don't go and routes I don't take because they just feel like they're too scary to be worth it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@kirst I work next door to Chesser hous and know the turn into fords road you are talking about. I took it the other day when traffic was quiet. But more usually now I trundle on a few yards to the pedestrian crossing, press the button and dismount and then push my bike over then proceed along fords road. Cuts out much of the risk. Also let's people put of fords road. Does sometimes seem to annoy drivers a little
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
Vulnerable on the Open Road: Five pro cyclists reflect on bike safety"
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I didn't see anyone saying that anyone was responsible for being knocked off for not riding defensively enough."
Was referring to "I would say you are at least 50% to blame and certainly have little cause for complaint."
Nobody would ever say that to a bus driver involved in a collision with a driver who took a chance on the bus lane being empty just because the 'traffic lane' was moving slowly enough to let them through. Cycle lane (or cyclist in a bus lane?) seems to be fair game though.
While I agree that being more vulnerable than a bus driver is a good incentive to be more careful than one, I can't see why being more vulnerable either transfers more blame onto you or bizarrely removes your right to complain when someone takes advantage.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Dave, yes it was an ill considered and possibly stupid comment/wording, however what I was trying to suggest is that a cyclist could be negligent in getting into the situation, and yes I would say something very similar to a bus driver who ploughed through an obvious area of risk at excessive speed (regardless of whether they were under the posted speed limit).
"Vulnerability" is a red herring here, it could just as easily been a crossing pedestrian hit as a car. The issue is riding(or driving) at a speed where the rider appears unable to react to predictable hazards.I believe rights and responsibilities apply to us the same way, whether in a car or on a bike (or other vehicle). If a car behaved in the manner described I'd call it reckless and dangerous, no different on a bicycle.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Just because someone percieves you as weak does not excuse them from exercising aggression. Interestingly this came up with someone looking at a low down trike.
"Looks a bit like a wheelchair" (ie despite paralympics some people still have same views)
I said that this should be a good thing as drivers would exercise restraint.
Then we got into the whole "are bikes with seats confusing drivers to be nice to people who don't have a disabity thread? Are some of their users cheats looking for sympathy etc".
I have a whole CityCycling article in there somewhere...Posted 12 years ago #
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