CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Fantasy commuting routes

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    In view of the announcement yesterday that there 'will' be (money no object apparently) a NEW Edinburgh to Glasgow rail route what 'missing' cycle routes are there?

    What would be the best route from the current Forth Road Bridge - perhaps to Edinburgh Park not just the city centre.

    Coming from the south the city bypass is a real barrier. Why not a new ped/cycle bridge or a proper route from the old Loanhead line with maybe a bridge over Lang Loan?

    East and west could be better served. A decent link from QMU to the Innocent? Something from Linlithgow (or HWU) that doesn't involve the canal?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Min
    Member

    I'd settle for a decent route between the north and south of the city for starters.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. cc
    Member

    I was imagining the other day how lovely it would be if North Bridge and South Bridge had a lovely smooth 4m wide cycle path down the middle, with the rest of the space reserved for pedestrians. Ditto Princes Street.

    As for practical missing links, I'd like a smooth cycle path round George Square please. Those neglected cobbles do my head in.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. ruggtomcat
    Member

    I would have a two lane segregated cycle lane all the way from Roslyn to Princess street, going over Liberton Brea.
    Ditto down to Leith docks and along Constitution street, could easily be done on London road too, tho Portobello is already served by the innocent.

    in this you can see my blatent west-blindness!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. amir
    Member

    A tunnel from north of Dobbies to the inch. To cut out that needless hill.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. wingpig
    Member

    Once decent ped/cycle bridges have been established to cross the bypass then turning Alnwickhill Road into a bike-friendly route (perhaps with a waggly path beside it through the stalled development in the field so make the uphill return journey a bit less steep) would be ideal, perhaps stealing a bit of farmland north of Braid Hills Drive, stealing back some land from the golf course and then using some of the existing roads within KB to cut through as far as West Mains Road before arcing over the allotments and along St Thomas's Road then perhaps along the (widened and lit) Lover's Loan before joining up to MMW, which would also be properly joined with the bits north of it and re-prioritised so that anything wanting to cross that north-south line has to wait, combined with the reinstatement of the escape-to-the-west filter-turning from the Mound to Princes Street and a signalled filter half-way down Candlemaker Row to allow people to turn in and out of Merchant Street, leading to a path which heads north-east through the vaults beneath the courts, over the Cowgate on a small and inexpensive bridge at sub-G4B-road-level, through the bottom of the other courts, underneath the High Street (where there would be an interchange to reach street level) then onwards under the Council (perhaps using some of the existing subterranean paths therebeneath) and then down into Waverley, smoothly curving round and down to meet up with the end of the Scotland Street tunnel, which would of course also be re-opened.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Tunnel from Scotland street to Waverley opened up, with it then joining up with the lower paths in Princes Street Gardens East, then another tunnel underneath the National Gallery (I'll be there's something there already that could be adapted) into Princes Street Gardens West, thereby joining up with King's Stables Road (where there would be a 'sensible' contraflow to get to Lothian Road). Canonmills to Lothian Road (and all stops between) without touching a road (and it's not even a route that would be on my commute, I just think it would be a fabulous bit of infrastructure).

    Oh, and proper cycle lanes on Leith Walk.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. PS
    Member

    At least one road in all directions from the city centre to the city extremities converted to one way (single lane) for motor vehicles, with the other lane made into a segregated two way cycle path (ie, wide enough of two-abreast in each direction).

    Being a naive optimist, that is what I thought the "Quality Bike Corridor" was going to be when I first heard about it. Would have been dead easy to do.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I'd like to see routes that have been converted into one way to inconvenience/discourage drivers (or because they just aren't big enough) to have cyclists' salmon runs. Places like Ponton Street and Semple Street, to avoid having to go up Lothian Road. Or Valleyfield Street, to make it easier and safer to go from Meadows to Gilmore Place.

    That kinda thing - the existing "traffic calming" set-ups just make it more dangerous for cyclists by forcing us onto the major routes with car-centric junctions and lane layouts, rather than allowing us to use our size and maneouvrability advantage to pick our way quickly along the side streets and bypass snarl-ups caused by congestion on major routes.

    I'd also like to see major business parks - like the Gyle or Edinburgh Park (selfish request there) - forced into providing PROPER access for cyclists. I don't think it should fall to the council alone to provide facilities, I think they (the council) should have sufficient powers to mandate and specify how developments such as these provide infrastructure. If they want to make money by building shopping barns or office complexes out of town, providing traffic-free access should come out of the developer's pocket.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "I think they (the council) should have sufficient powers to mandate and specify how developments such as these provide infrastructure2

    They do, in theory. They can, when faced with a planning application, put conditions on there (I tihnk this is still the case, I'm remembering public admin law classes from uni here). So if there's a huge supermarket planned, for example, Asda can be required to contribute to the costs of putting in place a better road system to take account of more cars coming and going to that car park. It would be no bother at all for the council to say, 'right, you can build that, but you must provide cycle infrastructure in this way'.

    Though Morningsider may pop up and tell me that's bunkum (part of me hopes it is, because if it's still the case then it shows up our council even more for the lax attitude to cycling despite the 'model cycling city' claims).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. Bhachgen
    Member

    "I'd also like to see major business parks - like the Gyle or Edinburgh Park (selfish request there) - forced into providing PROPER access for cyclists. I don't think it should fall to the council alone to provide facilities, I think they (the council) should have sufficient powers to mandate and specify how developments such as these provide infrastructure. If they want to make money by building shopping barns or office complexes out of town, providing traffic-free access should come out of the developer's pocket."

    Yes Yes Yes. A planning requirement for half a dozen metal hoops in a corner of the car park does not the mustard cut.

    Loved WC's idea for a North-East to South-West link across the city centre too.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. DaveC
    Member

    Yep Anth... aher,, WC is right, councils can stipulate infrastructure be modified to suit requirements.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Okay then I'm modifying my request in light of the above that if councils already have the powers, I'd like them to be used. (not discretionary either, it should be mandatory, unless the facilities/infrastructure already exist)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. DaveC
    Member

    Oh sorry for got to contribute...

    I would like the line from the Forth Bridge (rail) to Edinburgh park me widened to allow a safe cycle path to be routed along side. We could have it pass the Tramhub with feeders to the airport/Bank and allow commuters to park and ride into the centre and visa versa (ride in on the train and then take the tram (with bike) into the city centre).

    Also providing a Forthside Prom extenstion along Dalmany (difficult as its private land) possible with a bridge/opening pontoon bridge at Cramond. Very easy to put in place with the lock gate style opening pontoons to allow boats to pass freely.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY (and very easily implemented)

    Ultimately I'd like in the city centre pedestrian light phases to be reversed in priority. By this I mean default to Red to Vehicle traffic and Green to Pedestrians to allow free movement of the masses, as there are far more pedestrians than cars passing certain pinch points, think West end at Ryan's Bar and Waverly Bridge and North Bridge/South Bridge junction.

    Even if it was only for certain 'rush' hours.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. PS
    Member

    @K Yes - Cooncil should have masterplan of direct, efficient and non-conflicty routes across town (for the avoidance of doubt, that does not include the canal towpath) and coordinate linking all developments to those.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "By this I mean default to Red to Vehicle traffic and Green to Pedestrians to allow free movement of the masses"

    This ^^^

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. cc
    Member

    I love wingpig's underground cycle tunnel network!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    As someone pointed out on Twitter the other day, there's plenty room for cycle lanes if we remove the tax-payer subsidised parking from all our streets. That's two lanes given up entirely to cars almost everywhere - that would be my fantasy lane.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. shuggiet
    Member

    2 way cycle path on all existing NCN routes, with separate path for pedestrians.. Would apply to NEPN, Canal (maybe with creative use of moveable pontoons), Innocent, Broomhouse paths etc.

    Agree - where there are places of industry/employment like Edinburgh Park, there should be mandatory preference for cycling above cars for 2 way segregated cycle paths, secure indoor parking, easy connected priority access into the site.

    Strongly agree on the 'default to Red' for vehicle traffic...Maybe car drivers need to stop, get out, press the button, and wait for green...:-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    shuggiet: "Maybe car drivers need to stop, get out, press the button, and wait for green...:-)"

    I like how you think.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. LaidBack
    Member

    Cycle routes should always be the most direct energy efficient way in the LB model city. So yes to Scotland Street tunnel of course.
    Add in a broad direct cycle route to the Meadows on Forrest Rd. In fact just shove traffic other than buses round Bristo Place.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Yes. Forrest Road. A two-lane one-way system with parking on both sides and pavement buildouts. Cylists forced into one crappy lane in one direction (which is single yellow, so regularly parked on) and have to divert around Bristo Place in other. Should have segregated 2-way lane to join up with MMW.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. EddieD
    Member

    More routes across the A720 - there's nothing from Sheriffhall until after Old Craighall, and Sheriffhall scares the bejasus out of me either on the road or using the pedestrian links, (and I've cycled round Rome and Paris...but not Athens).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    EddieD, yes. The City Bypass really gets in the way. A cycle bridge at Sheriffhall would help that. And a proper connection from Musselburgh through Dalkeith now the rail-track is being put back, preferably via the Country Park and connecting with the North Esk Path at its top end.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    We should review where any impenetrable man-made road barriers (A1, A720, M8, M9, West Approach Road) cut across the natural "as the crow flies" route that a cyclist would take, and provide separated, traffic-free crossings. If you think about the Bypass, it's incredible that there isn't one, single, proper cycle-friendly under or overpass provided beyond the Union Canal (and that wasn't put there as a cycle route).

    There are a couple of underpasses, but not one of them is properly connected to any other infrastructure in any meaningful or useful way and most of them are hangouts for flytippers, ne'er do wells, graffitoists and permanently carpeted in broken glass.

    Councils should be obliged to provide traffic-free, safe cycling connectivity between themselves and their neighbouring councils.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    Well this is a successful thread!

    Great mix of fantastic whimsy, perfectly possible in some other (political) universe and some things that should already exist - or at least planned for 'the near future'. (Keep them coming.)

    I've been at a conference all day which include a lot of people explaining how things are done differently just across the North Sea.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. Morningsider
    Member

    WC - you are correct. A planning authority can attach relevant and proportionate conditions to the grant of planning permission. They can also enter into an agreement with a developer (known variously as a planning agreement, section 75 agreement or planning gain) to provide facilities or cash to help alleviate problems created off-site by a proposed development, e.g. road improvements, extensions to schools, provision of social housing etc.

    The reason there seems to be less of this happening at the moment is due to the current economic climate. Developers really have the upper hand when it comes to negotiating with planning authorities as so little is currently being built - meaning a developer can threaten to take their development elsewhere if an authority tries to attach too many conditions. In addition, developers can plead poverty (as finance is genuinely pretty hard to get) and authorities are wary of scuppering proposed developments by being making conditions too onerous.

    It was easy to tap developers when they were making huge margins on new homes, which people were desperate to buy when prices were booming. Not so easy now. The public sector cannot step into this breach in the provision of smaller scale infrastructure as almost all public sector infrastructure spending is being soaked up by a few mega projects.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. wangi
    Member

    Re underpass/bridges over the bypass - there's a stoater just sitting there waiting to be linked up north of Loanhead at Straiton Pond. It's already got a decent cycle path on the Midlothian side which then dwindles to nothing under the bypass and then onto actual rail tracks (but not used) soon after.

    Link it up to Lasswade Rd & Burdiehouse Burn for city access and through to Millerhill for a longer path.

    Map: http://osm.org/go/eve1Wn37F-
    Photos: http://www.pbase.com/wangi/image/43835143 & http://www.pbase.com/wangi/elr_railway

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    actual rail tracks (but not used) soon after

    The rail tracks have been cut back as far as Millerhill now. Trackbed is just rough ballast, hard going to walk. Probably only a fat-tyred bike could cycle it. I think chdot might have coaxed a Moulton along it though?


    Opportunity unfulfilled by the Magnificent Octopus, on Flickr

    It was nice of Midlothian to build such a lovely dead-end of a path though. The underpass exists as Bilston Glen Colliery survived just long enough to see construction of the Bypass. It shut not long afterwards though.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    "It was nice of Midlothian to build such a lovely dead-end of a path though"

    Um it ends at the MidL/CEC border (as u no)

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2449

    Posted 12 years ago #

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