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Toucan crossings

(46 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by amir
  • Latest reply from ih
  • This topic is not resolved

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  1. Snowy
    Member

    If you were using a Toucan and wishing to turn left onto the immediate carriagway, or travel over the road to turn right on the other carriageway, you are perfectly correct to do so, unless expressly forbidden to turn left or right by signage.

    Depending on the layout of the crossing there would probably be an element of giving way to pedestrians crossing the street onto which you are turning, but that's just common sense, and probably the law.

    Does rule 170 apply to bikes as well as cars? Probably never actually an issue, since bikes are not well known for wantonly accelerating towards pedestrians to 'teach them a lesson'.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. wangi
    Member

    Because if you just go straight on after the crossing the path down to the NEP has steps, yeah?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. Kenny
    Member

    That's right, @wangi. I've heard of someone who claims to cycle down the gutter bit to the side of the steps, but that's a bit radical for me.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. wangi
    Member

    It's poor completion of the facilities isn't it - they put in the toucan obviously to connect up with the NEP... But forgot to do anything about the steps there!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Kenny
    Member

    I'm not sure what else they could do, tbh. It's quite a steep hill down to the path using the steps. I was recently on a directed cycle ride where they took people this way:

    In other words, cross the toucan crossing, turn left and use the pavement to get to the start of the Hawthornvale Path. I don't know if that's where you're supposed to go, or even if that bit of pavement on Lindsay Road is shared use, though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. chrispaton
    Member

    Resurrecting this thread for a different but related question: do you have to wait for the green man/bike at a toucan crossing if the carriageway is clear, or is it legal to proceed even with the red man showing? As a further question, does it matter whether it's a toucan with only a red man (signals opposite you) or a toucan with a red man/bike (signals next to you where the button is)?

    I've always wondered the answer to this and wondered it some more after I went through a red man at a toucan crossing (because the road was clear!) in front of a police car. The police took no action, but it certainly made me question whether my action was legal or not!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. ih
    Member

    On a toucan crossing people on bikes must wait (HC type terminology) for the green cycle symbol to appear. Pedestrians are allowed to cross on red or green.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. SRD
    Moderator

    My recollection is that informed people on here (ie morningsider) have said it is 100% legal to cross on a red man if the carriageway is clear (e.g. Leamington walk crossings), but that when there is a proper red circle we have to stop - e.g. crossing from NMW/ARgyle place to MMW.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. Roibeard
    Member

    It's only a Toucan if there is a green illuminated cycle during the pedestrian phases, which denotes that cyclists may ride across at this point.

    Splitting hairs a bit further, if it's simply a solid red circle (top of MMW), then it is illegal for vehicles (inc bikes) to proceed past the stop line.

    But if there isn't a red circle, cyclists could proceed just as readily as pedestrians on a red man.

    The pedantic point might be that cycling on a footway without explicit permission to do so may be illegal. For pelican crossings (red/green man only), one has to dismount to cross legally, so if there is only a red man showing it may still be illegal to cycle across even if there isn't a red circle.

    TLDR; I've no idea if it's legal or not to cycle across a toucan showing a red cycle, but it is illegal to cycle through a solid red circle or to cycle across a pedestrian only crossing, and the red man on its own might make one conclude it was pedestrian only.

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. jonty
    Member

    Now - what about crossing the road stop line using a toucan to get on to the pavement? I think it's probably illegal (the legal version being something like the ramp up to the opposite kerb you get in Bruntsfield). I got a "that light's for you too you know" once when getting on the NEPN at Craigleith that way from someone crossing, even though if I'd done it 'properly' (with green light or pavement & green man) I'd have passed right by him, as opposed to the 5m+ clearance when I did it the 'illegal' way.)

    In fact, I wonder if him (or his complaints) are almost single-handedly responsible for the no cycling signs there now?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. Roibeard
    Member

    I opt not to cross the carriageway stop line when turning into Middle Meadow Walk.

    I will join the pavement and thus bypass the stop line at the Mainfield Road/West Mains Road junction as there is a dropped kerb and shared use path just prior to the stop line, similar to that at Teviot Place to allow one to turn left into MMW.

    It's just a pity that the new Meadows to Park route did not include this possibility at the Toucan crossings on Buccleuch Street or Clerk Street. Cyclists on the carriageway wishing to turn right onto the cycle track have it worse, technically being required to dismount at the red light and then head right, or cycle left on the green, U-turn and then wait for the next cycle phase...

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. ih
    Member

    Talk of red circles etc is confusing. A toucan crossing is defined by having a green cycle symbol during the pedestrian phase. There are many design variants (position of lights, red cycle symbol or not) but a green cycle somewhere is a constant and it is only legal to cycle across when the green cycle symbol is showing.

    Any crossing without a green cycle symbol is not a toucan and you are supposed to dismount to cross it.

    As an aside, the newly permitted parallel zebras, where you are allowed to cycle across between elephant's feet markings (parallel to the stripey pedestrian bit) and motorists should stop for you should be seized upon by road designers and used as much as possible.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Any crossing without a green cycle symbol is not a toucan and you are supposed to dismount to cross it.

    From what ih says, the crossing at the bottom of Argyle Place to get to MMW is strictly speaking not a Toucan, it's a parallel pelican crossing and cycle crossing, which is why it shows the solid red light at the top (and which is why you'd be causing an offence to cycle across it on red).

    The Valleyfield Street / NMW crossing is a Toucan, but a design with a solid red light at top for the red phase.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. ih
    Member

    @kaputnik from memory, the Argyle Place to MMW does have a green cycle light so I'm pretty sure it's a pukka toucan. I'll check next time I'm that way.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @ih but is it a toucan where the pedestrian and cycle parts are separated i.e. there's a "green man" with one set of crossing studs/markers on the road surface for pedestrians and a "green bike" with a separate set of studs for bikes?

    I thought (and could quite probably be wrong) that the toucan required the green man/bike symbols to be combined on the same actual lamp on the crossing.

    Like this (or equivalent on the pole-top lights);

    http://uk-driving-test.com/images/pelican-crossing-2.gif

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. ih
    Member

    @kaputnik I thought (and could quite probably be wrong) that the toucan required the green man/bike symbols to be combined on the same actual lamp on the crossing.

    I've never seen the green man and green bike on separate poles. Do you have an Edinburgh example and I'll go and look. I've seen the separate studs thing on the road to indicate separation for bikes and pedestrians trying to cross, but always controlled by combined lights as far as I know.

    Wasn't sure what to look for in your link.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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