CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Red light death - should I complain?

(26 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Dave
  • Latest reply from Dave
  • poll: Should we just accept these things?
    Yes - **** happens. : (3 votes)
    23 %
    No - have a moan. : (10 votes)
    77 %

    13 votes

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  1. Dave
    Member

    This morning I had a brush with a Lothian X48 bus who shot a red light turning up from Princes St onto the Bridges.

    It wasn't a particularly close-run thing because I have good brakes, but if I had been riding down North Bridge when my light went green (instead of stationary at the line) it could have been a different story.

    As it was I pulled away, got half-way over towards the St James' centre and then had to stop as he came through and turned across me (but there was a few feet of room).

    The driver was quite civil, although he declined to give me his ID number it was easy to get the reg and bus number of the vehicle. Of course, there is no real evidence because I haven't been wearing a camera (First Law again).

    I can't decide if it's worth following up on with Lothian Buses, or just something to shrug off. They do have forward-facing CCTV after all...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "The driver was quite civil"

    You mean he stopped in the middle of the junction?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. Dave
    Member

    No, after a moment to collect myself I u-turned and of course he was stopping at the first stop on the bridge, about 50 feet away.

    He insisted he didn't shoot the light and said that perhaps mine went green before his changed (!!) - not sure I really believe that though.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    Well, if you have his details, i think i would report it, since we all think lothian bus drivers usually do a good job. if we don't, who will?

    had a different bus (not first, not munro's) pull out from a stop without signalling the other day on dalkeith rd, while I was overtaking it. driver gave me a sort of apologetic look, but wish I had gotten enough details to report.

    also wish I'd reported the scottish water guy who drove past my bus stop on his mobile yesterday morning.

    These people drive for a living - they should know better than to risk their livelihoods.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. spytfyre
    Member

    if you got the reg plate and time report it - they will be able to check the camera footage and know who was driving, mention they refused to give you their driver number - I feel that means they knew they were in the wrong
    your light going green before his went red is BS, is he really suggesting these lights are not configured correctly?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. LaidBack
    Member

    Reason he was civil is as Spytfyre says. He knows that if you have the vehicle number, service number and time it can be checked out.

    I had very careful bit of LRT driving yesterday as driver let me through rather than rush into stop. As a company they do try...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. 1lesscar
    Member

    You should report him. It may be some one else next time, and they might not be so lucky as to stop in time.

    The buses have good cameras, and the bosses are very thorough in dealing with complaints of this type.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. Dave
    Member

    I think I will pop them a note tonight, after checking the light timings on the way home (you can stand so as to view them both at the same time).

    In a way I don't want to, because I find Lothian Bus drivers so excellent as a rule, that it seems a shame to spoil things. Grmmph. But on the other hand, I suppose it would be worse for a driver to know that even if he does bounce a red light, misses someone and they take his details, that they still can't be bothered complaining, why not do it all the time?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. cb
    Member

    Might be worth working out where he was in comparison to the published timetable.
    I tend to find that LRT drives can push it a bit at traffic lights when they're running late.
    At quiet times of the day they can absolutely bimble along (and sometimes go out of their way to fail to get through on green)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    this stands out as LRT are generally observant of bike, I would report it as have noticed a few times recently that some can start to pull out from stop just as you overtake them again which did stop after they were trained. Could be new drivers? Possibly recruited from FirstBus who are not observant of bike and run fume belching ancient rolling stock

    I was not going to post this tale from the commute but since we are recounting tales I had a spooky premonition today at Slateford. I was in the Red Box on Lanark Rd going into town at the Longstone Junction (Inglis Green Rd etc). I was in the right hand lane as going straight on and left hand lane is very very clearly only for turning left. There was an Internet/.Media comapny van on my left. Normally when lights change I cycle beyond the junction then veer into the left lane which is at that point a bus lane, this allows the cars which can't enter the bus lane to pass me. HOwever, today I had a premonition that the van was in the wrong lane and was going to go straight on, when the lights changed the massive amount of revving the van did may have helped my premonition, anyway I looked carefully over left shoulder before the manouevre into bus lane and sure enough van sped on. Van did exactly the same thing at Chesser/Asda turn - sped on from left turning lane - this helped me think he wasn't just trying to kill me

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. Dave
    Member

    I am terribly, terribly bad at getting in the way of drivers who try to queue jump up the bus lanes. I don't even like letting the private hires past (not sure whether they're supposed to be there, with or without fare) but usually give them the benefit of the doubt because they sure as heck *think* they've got the right to be there!

    As to the OP, I will write a nice letter and cc it here.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. Dave
    Member

    OK, as follows:

    --------------

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re: service X48, vehicle V54G ESC (544) at 8:10am on 04/06/10

    I am writing to you as someone who often commutes by bus, sometimes by bike, to congratulate you on the excellence of your drivers; they are invariably courteous and pleasant and, when I’m on my bike, I’m always taken by how carefully and professionally they drive around more vulnerable road users.

    Therefore you will understand my reluctance that on this occasion I am also writing to make a complaint about an incident which occurred during this morning’s rush hour (Friday June 4th).

    I was waiting at the junction of North Bridge / Princes St at 8:10am, having come down the bridges and intending to head across in the direction of Leith Walk.

    When the lights changed I, along with another cyclist and the cars behind, moved into the junction but were forced to make a rapid stop when a bus coming from Princes St came through the lights and turned up North Bridge across us.

    In the event there was an adequate gap, but only because we had started from stationary – I fear anyone coming down North Bridge who had caught the lights as they changed might not have been able to stop in time and inevitably been hit by the bus.

    As the driver was only making his way to the stop 50 feet up the road, I took the opportunity to walk over and speak to the driver, who was perfectly polite but insisted that the light was green when he went through, and did not seem to feel that he had done anything wrong. He also refused to give me his driver number in order to facilitate this complaint, forcing me to note the details of the vehicle as he drove away.

    I understand that your vehicles have forward-facing CCTV, and as I cycle with a video camera myself, I know how valuable these things can be when there is an objective matter in question. No doubt it will be easy for you to determine whether the driver did proceed through an amber or red light, or perhaps the junction is faulty (although I should note that I later observed the sequence and there is a clear gap between each direction of traffic getting a green light)

    I trust you will take whatever action is appropriate and look forward to your reply.

    Your humble servant, etc. etc.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    Lovely, nice tone and all that, but did you really sign 'your humble servant' (or was that just for our benefit?). I would have thought that 'sincerely' would have done just fine, or perhaps 'a concerned commuter'?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. Dave
    Member

    Ha, that bit was just to see if any of you read to the end ;-)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. SRD
    Moderator

    Phew!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. cb
    Member

    "I don't even like letting the private hires past (not sure whether they're supposed to be there, with or without fare)"

    I don't *think* they are supposed to be there. That was certainly the case five years ago, according to this

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. druidh
    Member

    "I was in the Red Box on Lanark Rd going into town at the Longstone Junction (Inglis Green Rd etc). I was in the right hand lane as going straight on and left hand lane is very very clearly only for turning left. "

    I don't think this is correct. The left lane is for traffic turning left AND for buses. I take this to mean all users of the bus lane across the junction and I've certainly seen lots of taxis use this. I use the left hand of the box when commuting that way (i.e. most mornings).

    Still means the van driver was in the wrong though.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. spytfyre
    Member

    Have they got back to you yet Dave?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. Dave
    Member

    Nope - but I deliberately didn't include a phone number so I couldn't be fobbed off on the phone, so wouldn't expect to.

    I'll update the thread with the response.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Well...

    "HUNDREDS of bus drivers have been caught putting passengers' safety at risk by speeding and jumping red lights, new figures showed today."

    http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Bus-drivers-on--the.6356181.jp

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. Dave
    Member

    There was a letter waiting for me when I got back on Sunday night, I won't attempt to transpose the whole thing but in essense they said, we checked the CCTV and the driver (who has a good record) went through the light "as it changed".

    My heart was sinking as I went on to read the "BUT"...

    "Giving consideration" to the length of the amber period and other factors, they felt he should have stopped and as a result would have an interview with his manager, "inevitably leading" to a period of re-training with their driving school.

    So - result. I feel a bit bad for the driver (but not that bad!) and I was pleased that they took the time to note my "kind remarks" re: their drivers in general.

    I have to say that I was suspicious they might just whitewash it ("the bus did pass through the light as it changed but the driver couldn't have stopped without jolting all his passengers to death"), so I am doubly pleased that they evidently don't just side with their drivers when they easily could, if they have been naughty.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. spytfyre
    Member

    Very good of LRT to take a responsible attitude
    Along with the MGM Timber reply that makes two decent responses in one day? I am shocked, nay, surprised!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. andrew@camera-obscura.co.uk
    Member

    Just reading all this for first time. I was nearly taken out by an LRT driver last year, wrote a complaint and got a similar full apology once CCTV had been checked. By reporting stuff we help them deal with issues like this.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. Kim
    Member

    You shouldn't feel bad about it Dave, you may just have saved someone's life. Attitudes to drive are shockingly lax, and as a result 7 people pay with their lives every day.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. Min
    Member

    "He insisted he didn't shoot the light and said that perhaps mine went green before his changed (!!) - not sure I really believe that though. "

    I was reminded of this this morning when I went through that junction from Princes Street. My light started to turn to amber as I rode through so I speeded up to get through before the North Bridge lights changed. As I did so I turned my head to look at the lights signalling from North Bridge, only to find that the amber was on there too. So two ambers at once. I think this is well dodgy! The light from Princes Street should be red before the one from North Bridge starts to change surely?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. Dave
    Member

    Ha - so maybe he was right after all, and the timing is just pants!

    Perhaps I should now continue my moan to the council?

    Posted 13 years ago #

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