CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Is Edinburgh Council Anti-Car?

(9 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from crowriver

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  1. It's a refrain often heard (usually in the EEN pages). Edinburgh's motorists are 'beleaguered' or they are to be 'hit' with new restrictions, so on and so forth.

    Examples?

    Parking restrictions (well if you want your city to turn into one giant car park);
    Potholes in the road (honestly? You think that's done deliberately by the Council? Is your tin foil hat comfortable?);
    Tramworks (clearly you've never tried being a cyclist, or especially a pedestrian, around the tramworks);
    20mph zones (c'mon, if you were to hit a 2 mile section of 20mph it would take 6 minutes to go through - at 30mph it would take 4 minutes - are 2 minutes really that precious?).

    Alternatively they are seen as being 'pro-bike', or quite often being in the pocket of SPOKES, which would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact this is often stated as being the gospel truth.

    You and I know how hard it is to get anything at all pro-bike out of the Council. Ranters will cite the QBC as an example - thousands launched at helping cyclists (to the dteriment of the motorist). Until you look at the detail of course and see that parking spaces have increased on the route, the speed limit has remained the same, and where there's potential for conflict they've left cyclists in the lurch with no lane at all because it's 'too narrow' to fit in without taking space from cars. Which just shows how little the council actually listen to cyclists, and anyway, 600 odd thousand is utter peanuts compared to costs associated with the roads for driving facilities.

    How do ideas such as 'anti-car' and 'pro-bike' take hold so completely, when even just scratching the surface it is completely and utterly clearly wrong?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I'm not sure that 'anti-car' is the right term, the Council has certainly done it's bit to try and discourage people from coming into town in cars.
    In addition to the stuff you mentioned, road closures and diversions designed to 'cut' the city centre in half, and disrupt natural routes etc etc. Trying to get tolls put in, the list is endless, but that certainly doesn't make it a 'pro-bike' city either.

    The biggest mistake the council has made in implementing all of these measures is to ensure that there is ample/efficient public transport coming into town to actually persuade people that is a viable option.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "the speed limit has remained the same"

    Part of it became 20mph - which may be worse!

    Incidentally the QBC is still known in the council as QBIC - I think the I is for improvement.

    Which is why some people say it is an improvement.

    Probably is - but not sufficiently.

    I hope LW will be improved - there's actually a danger that nice road surface will increase traffic speeds and...

    The council likes incremental - it doesn't frighten so many people.

    I want a sea change in attitude and action.

    So my compromise would be resurface the whole lot and spend the rest of the money on a bit - maybe the Fit o' The Walk or Pilrig and show what the rest could really be like - with a bit more money.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. "In addition to the stuff you mentioned, road closures and diversions designed to 'cut' the city centre in half"

    My query would be, has that been done deliberately? Was the intention to make driving through the city less pleasurable and therefore have people ditch it as an option? I'm just not sure there's that foresight in the Council (and whenever the EEN jumps up and down about things like that the Council tends to cave in).

    In Copenhagen they put in a cycling green wave and made streets one way. The big difference for the one way was that it was one direction for one section, then a different direction for another. So to make progress you couldn't drive straight line, but had to zig-zag all along the route and get lots of red lights and cede priority to cyclists (who simply rode in a straight line at a consisten pace and never got a red).

    When people complained the Council was being 'anti-car' they said "Yes. We are. Because we want this to be a nicer place and people to leave their cars at home".

    So to put it another way, could you ever see the Council sticking by something that was absolutely designed to frustrate driving and admit that that's exactly what it was for?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    anti-car != pro-cycling

    The council is more than able to mess things up for everyone and in the process satisfy no one.

    My personal view is that it's the attempt to try and maintain existing "capacity" for cars in the city centre that really holds cycling back. Such as the infamous "there's no room for cycling" on the QBC at narrow sections. Actually, there's no room for existing 2-way traffic and filter turn lanes, there's more than enough room for cycling. There's oodles of room for safe cycling in Edinburgh, but 99% of the time it's squeezed out at the expense of "loading" bays, metered parking spaces and over-engineered junctions with separate left, straight-on and right filter lanes for vehicles and nothing for cycling apart form an ASL reservoir that you haven't a hope in hull of reaching when traffic is stacked up.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. stiltskin
    Member

    [/quote]you haven't a hope in hull[/quote]

    Grimsby's worse:)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. PS
    Member

    When people complained the Council was being 'anti-car' they said "Yes. We are. Because we want this to be a nicer place and people to leave their cars at home".

    This message should be the first thing off the Council's lips every time they do something to do with restricting car use; but it never is. No idea why.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I think what isn't appreciated is that if council gets serious about reducing unneccessary short journeys (i.e. most of them) into/through/around town by investing in alternatives (i.e. pleasant, safe and convenient walking and cycling) then that actually leaves a lot more space and room and less traffic for the cars and vans left over whose journeys are "essential".

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. crowriver
    Member

    leaves a lot more space and room and less traffic for the cars and vans left over whose journeys are "essential".

    Ah, but who gets to decide exactly who's journey is "essential"? This is the crux of it: everyone believes their journey is the most important...

    Posted 12 years ago #

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