Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee Official Report 24 November 2009 - transcript.
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Cyclists' evidence to Scottish Parliament committee now online
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Posted 14 years ago #
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The TICCC is due to meet tomorrow (Mar 16th) to consider a draft report of the Inquiry into Active Travel.
Main page for Active Travel on the Scottish Parliament website.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Interesting "people like cycling but do not like cyclists"
"People are happy to go cycling, but they do not want to be cyclists. They associate cyclists with all kinds of things such as Lycra and technical specifications of bikes."
"... if we really want to encourage everyday cyclists, we need to break down the image that a cyclist needs an awful lot of kit and must look like this or that. We need to bring the aspirational cyclists a lot closer to the people who will make the behaviour change."
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ticc/or-09/tr09-2602.htm Col 2296
Posted 14 years ago # -
Call me a cynical old bam but I suspect if you provide door to door separate facilities for people they would then complain about hills and the weather.
Separate facilities mean that people in cars can tell you to get off their road onto a slower, glass strewn ghetto. Unless they come up with something as fast and direct as roads I'd prefer to stick with what we have.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Look at Peter Zanzottera's evidence (Col 2298):
" ... many people say that if you ask people who do not cycle to guide your policy, you probably will not get there. We know that when people become cyclists, many of their attitudes change. One attitude that people hold at first is probably, "I'm not fit enough," and others include, "It's too hilly," and, "The weather's too bad." We find that when people become cyclists their attitudes change quite a lot, because they become fitter and therefore they are not worried about those aspects; they find that it does not rain that often—says he on a day when it is chucking it down—and the hilliness becomes less of an issue. If you perceive the world from the inside of a car, your attitude to active travel is quite different."
Posted 14 years ago # -
Wee smir of rain here before lunch. I hope it stays off as I have just abandoned winter kit and cycled in wearing shorts this morning. I wear shorts in the afternoon for most of the year but mornings are generally colder. Brompton S bags don't have a lot of space for spare stuff.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Not much to report from the meeting:
"6. Inquiry into active travel: The Committee considered a draft report and agreed to consider a further draft in private at its next meeting. The Committee also agreed to apply for chamber debating time for the report."
but it sounds positive. Perhaps the report was so big and full of pro-bike suggestions that they need more time to go through it!
Posted 14 years ago # -
"That is interesting, because the CAPS research and other research that has come out of the smarter choices, smarter places initiative shows that there is only a 10 or 20 percentage point difference between the fear-of-traffic ratings among people who cycle and among those who do not. People who regularly cycle think that it is dangerous; people who do not cycle think that it is even more dangerous."
I think this bit is the bit that is often ignored by cycling advocates. Okay statistically cycling is safe but being cut up, revved at and passed by a few inches away does not make it feel safe. This has been brought home to me as I am on my folding bike at the moment and the amount of aggression I get is unbelievable. It counts to several frightening incidents per journey to the extent that this morning I didn't even want to cycle because of the gnawing pit of fear in my stomach.
Yesterday I was left hooked twice despite being in the middle of my lane (I can't even remember the last time this happened) and had a taxi driver try to slam me into the back of a stationary bus. The only reason I wasn't out in the other lane in plenty of time is that the bus skimmed past me then immediately pulled in.
This moring wasn't too bad as I left earlier than usual and the worst that happened was that three lanes of motorists drove at me simultaneously while I was signalling to leave a roundabout.
Last summer when I was riding my folder exclusively I was close to giving up cycling altogether and had to stop for a couple of weeks to get my nerves back together.
I have no idea whether this is because the bike is considered poncy and therefore I deserve to die for riding it or whether it is because I look more like a "woman on a bike" rather than a "cyclist" and therefore beneath contempt but whatever the reason I think I am going to have to stop using it which is a shame because I really love riding it.
And I am going to stick to being a "cyclist" as for me, it is much safer.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Mmm sounds like you're having a tough time.
Not sure about the 'folder' aspect.
Main visual difference from a 'normal' bike is wheel size.
There are plenty of small wheeled bikes around these days.
I ride both and am not aware of different driver attitude.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Have read up on a lot of the research, one thing I have noticed is that there is a difference in perception between male and female cycle as to how dangerous cycling is. Female cyclist think it is more dangerous, then males, but there is a general difference in risk perception between the sexes anyway.
If we really want to get more people cycling, we need make the roads feel safer. One of the major problems is there is a culture of bulling on the roads. It is seen as socially acceptable to bully more vulnerable road users if you are driving. This need to be ended, I am just not sure how.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Maybe it IS more dangerous for women? I should say I am pretty obviously female but perhaps it is more obvious on the folder since I wear normal clothes on it rather than cycling clothes? Oh I really don't know what the problem is.
But I agree that there is a culture of bullying and cycling will never become truly popular until it is ended. How I don't know. Strict Liability* might help.
*Is that what it is called? You probably know what I mean..
Posted 14 years ago # -
"It is seen as socially acceptable to bully more vulnerable road users if you are driving"
or cycling...I am totally convinced that an awful lot of young males in Edinburgh ride aggressively , dangerously and rudely around older female cyclists.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Dr. Ian Walker's work on drivers overtaking cyclists, suggest that, in general, drivers give female cyclist (or cyclist they think are female) more room. Of course there are drivers who will deliberately go out of their way to try and frighten cyclist, and being total cowards will pick on female cyclist.
Sadly there is also a trend for female drivers to chose large four wheel drive cars, in order to bully others on the road.
Yes a law of Strict Liability would help, and with an election coming maybe we should lobby those seeking our vote to bring in such a law.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I don't get the impression that female drivers chose 4x4s in order to bully others off the road. It's more that all that metal makes them feel safer.
Whether some of them don't feel safe in a normal car because they're not very good drivers and by driving such a big car any acts of bad driving are more obvious and more dangerous to others is a matter for an academic study or opinionated discussion...
Anyway, I'm just back form Paris where I spent a lot of time riding around on the Velib bikes, which was a fantastic experience. Particularly enjoyable were Rue de Rivoli and Place de la Concorde. Some of it may be down to riding a more upright, heavier bike than normal, or post-dinner Armagnac-fuelled midnight rides but I felt very safe cycling there. I seemed to get a bit more space from cars and there was less of the usual British knee-jerk need to accelerate past a cyclist even though there's a set of lights just ahead...
Posted 14 years ago # -
It's many years since I cycled in Paris - on a borrowed bike.
I was expecting the 'legendary' driver madness.
But no, great care/courtesy towards people on bikes.
Must be the 'Tour de France effect'.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@ PS, I have met them on the school run!
The thing about France is that they do still have a cycling culture, they don't regard cyclist as second class citizens too poor to own a car.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@Kim - Fair enough. The school run is a free for all, against the clock dash across the city with all sorts of junior distractions in the car and to my mind the unnecessary source of much of rush hour urban congestion. A national disgrace.
I'm glad I'm rarely on the bike at the same time.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I rarely ride anything but a folder and I don't get grief from other traffic. One of my Bromptons is fairly sedate because of the M type bars, rack, Brooks, SON generator and Marathons. The other two are quite nippy, one of them very nippy
I've never tried being female but I did used to have waist length hair. The only difference I noticed there was that occasionally guys would start trying to chat me up then get embarrassed when they noticed their mistake.
Of course I don't think cycling is dangerous and I just had to think hard to remember the last time I had a problem on the road. It was about a year ago when someone took the wrong lane on Paisley Rd at the Govan cop shop roundabout. I assume they thought they could get past me and then take the first exit but I was moving faster than they expected.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I am totally convinced that an awful lot of young males in Edinburgh ride aggressively , dangerously and rudely around older female cyclists.
This is an interesting point, I have to admit that I'm struggling to think what 'rude' cycling might be, but more to the point, how are my fellow men distinguishing between younger and older women (or even between men and women in many cases)?
Unless you're referring to some kind of activity when stopped at traffic lights, obviously I can tell who's who then!
I keep meaning to post a video of "suicide woman", an older lady on a sensible-style upright bike with all the trimmings, high viz and whatnot, who rides a bit like an alleycat racer. A couple of times she's outrun me down North Bridge & Leith Walk despite my ludicrous speed advantage, by the simple tactic of smearing her bike down the left hand side of any large vehicle that can be found. Very... different.
Posted 14 years ago # -
What is implicit in my posting (mainly because i have mentioned it elsewhere) is that I usually have a three year old in a seat on the bike. So when young trendy bloke rides into my path, as I described yesterday, so that I have to brake or slow, (and risk rear-ending from cars who don't realise my velocity has decreased), I presume he thinks 'she can't go very fast, I'll just blast past her'. I consider that rude and potentially dangerous. As I said to him at the next lights, if a car did that to him, he would not like it.
PS - can't help wondering if 'suicide woman's' not a member of this forum...the attitude sounds a little familiar...:) But then, I know people think I sometimes take risks - eg I will go through yellows rather than risk being rear-ended by cars behind me, especially as when bike seat is fully loaded, the bike is not as manoeuvrable as other times, and forward velocity can be pretty extreme. Had one nasty encounter with a car when I did stop for a yellow going into Holy Corner, and have since always gone through. I';m sure a lot of people see me doing that and think I am nuts!
Posted 14 years ago # -
@SRD, exactly, if a car had done it then he would have been miffed, and rightly so. Do unto others, as I happened to write about recently... ;)
Posted 14 years ago # -
Posted 14 years ago #
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Thanks Anth. Your illustration reminds me of a post I meant to make when everyone was bashing on about how riding on the meadows path 'ought to be allowed'. One of the very good reasons why it shouldn't, is that it is good to have some paved places where toddlers can learn to toddle! I had some not-very-nice encounters on Bruntsfield links with cyclists going at full-tilt down paths marked 'no cycling' while small, unsteady little ones were walking along.
Obviously, we all need to learn to stay out of the way of bikes and other pedestrians, but cyclists who blast past 1 year olds do not amuse, and are foulmouthed when you point out that they're not supposed to be cycling there, are a menace.
My problem -- on bikes and off -- is that I cannot keep myself from telling people off for anti-social and illegal behaviour, and it is rarely appreciated.
Posted 14 years ago # -
SRD, you were writing this
"cyclists who blast past 1 year olds do not amuse, and are foulmouthed when you point out that they're not supposed to be cycling there, are a menace."
while I was posting "This means conflict between pedestrians and cyclists both where people are cycling legally (in spite of contrary signs) and not (when they may think they are)"!
Posted 14 years ago #
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