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"HS2: 'Timetable needed' for high-speed rail to reach Scotland"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

  2. wee folding bike
    Member

    They could start it from this end.

    Yeah right.

    I didn't hear any mention of Scotland on the radio where they were talking about this. I haven't seen TV news today, parents night.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "I didn't hear any mention of Scotland on the radio"

    Was on Radio Scotland.

    Scottish Gov should punt a 'high' speed line from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness (then further).

    Not much chance of EDB-KGX time reduction in near future so why not improve links to "one of Europe's fastest growing cities" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverness

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Keith Brown: £10 billion spend on high-speed rail link to Scotland an "absolute must"

    "

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/transport/keith-brown-10-billion-spend-on-high-speed-rail-link-to-scotland-an-absolute-must.121512187

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. Snowy
    Member

    An Inverness link would be much better use of land than a dual-carriageway....so I can't really see Keith supporting that idea...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. The Boy
    Member

    If I were in charge of infrastructure policy I would be looking at building HS links to Manchester. It seems destined to be designated a Northern powerhouse whether it wants to be or not - big project of devolution assuming they go for elected mayors, huge amount of infrastructure investment across the whole of the North is planned (possibly reliant on the Manchester devolution). And journey times would actually benefit - currently takes comparable times to get from Edi-Man as Edi-Lon.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. Tulyar
    Member

    EDB/GLC to Leeds - shortest distance actually via Carlisle and even with 60mph limit it is faster than going via Newcastle.....

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "

    HS2 and £13 billion transport plan at heart of Northern Powerhouse.

    "

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transport-has-power-to-change-the-north

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    That was a difficult read. McLoughlin doesn't seem to understand the difference between sentences and paragraphs. Not quite joined-up thinking.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. PS
    Member

    That was a difficult read. McLoughlin doesn't seem to understand the difference between sentences and paragraphs. Not quite joined-up thinking.

    It's his script for a speech. It works better when spoken rather than read as text; however, you can see from that what presentation skills training has done to the standard of oratory in the 21st century...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A DEAL to cut train journeys from Scotland to London to three hours by bringing high-speed rail north of the Border is in the offing between the UK and Scottish governments.

    It could involve a combination of upgrading existing tracks and building new high-speed lines over the final stretches into Glasgow and Edinburgh, according to sources familiar with the project.

    A joint study by the two governments is understood to conclude that extending HS2 to Scotland from northern England is not feasible.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/deal-on-track-to-bring-fast-rail-link-to-scotland-1-3841092

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. wee folding bike
    Member

    We still don't need that 20 year old Channel Tunnel waiting room in Glasgow Central.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "

    In a written parliamentary answer, transport minister Derek Mackay said it was “not possible” to progress the scheme until details of the proposed cross-border leg of HS2, the high speed link from London to northern England, had been finalised.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-glasgow-high-speed-rail-plan-scrapped-1-4001872

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    How convenient.

    Funny how duelling of the A9 is full steam ahead, despite the traffic volumes not justifying it.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. Morningsider
    Member

    Well, at least Keith Brown didn't use the development of the Edinburgh-Glasgow high speed rail project as an excuse to cut back the scope of the EGIP project in 2012.

    Oh, wait...I see, it must have been a different Keith Brown speaking in the Scottish Parliament on 19 September 2012 who said "On EGIP, it is right for us to take into account the possible implications of high-speed rail."

    See: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=7927&mode=pdf

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    Hm. I may have inadvertently given the impression that offended gentlemen will be drawing pistols at dawn along the A9. Damn you, Apple autocorrect!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Ministers today rubbished claims by the Liberal Democrats that they had scrapped a planned high-speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

    Transport minister Derek Mackay confirmed planning for the line cannot be progressed until a decision is made on the route of a high-speed link across the Border.

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/questions-over-edinburgh-glasgow-high-speed-rail-plan-1-4001872

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    Clearly HS2 will have to play second fiddle to space travel, as we blast off to the stars from Ayrshire. And as for cycling and walking, that's hardly going to get you to Titan is it?

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jan/15/star-trek-william-shatner-george-takei-snp-scotland-spaceport

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. Ed1
    Member

    Personally I think they should build the line whatever it costs as a line is there "forever"and in long term be worthwhile.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. Tulyar
    Member

    The biggest joke is that with a tilting train and exsting 125mph top speeds Edinburgh to London in 3.6 hours is within reach using the existing line.

    3.3-3.4 hours would seem possible if trains could go through or past places like Morpeth (60), Newcastle (20) and York (30?) at realistic line speeds.

    3 hours could be delivered now if a concession was made on signalling and track wear. Existing IC225 and IC125 ave rattled down Stoke Bank at 160mph, and if the modern signalling systems which leave a trail of screwed up projects over the past 20 years, ad been delivered we would have large chunks of London-Doncaster (& Selby diversion) / Poppleton-Darlington / Pegswood-Berwick with 140mph line speeds perhaps nudging up the stop to stop average to c.130mph (or 3 hours to Edinburgh.

    An EC high speed line as stop to stop average speeds of over 100mph, so the non -stop Glasgow-London timing (with constraints like Carlisle and Preston) in 3h 55 for 402 miles isn't that bad, and the scheduled 4h 08 with a stop at Preston (208 miles in 2 hours scheduled with recovery time that can see the train arriving early) is suitably impressive - every train Glasgow-London

      averages
    105mph Warrington-Euston

    Even the Greengauge 21 claims that Edinburgh- Glasgow high speed service would cut the time from 1 hour to 35 minutes is a bit hollow. Glasgow to Haymarket is consistently 39-40 minutes with 2-3 stops (and 6-7 minutes allowed to get past Princes Street Gardens). In the late 1970's the slower Swindon DMU's had I'm told a 38 minute non stop timing with semaphore signals and jointed track!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    "

    We will not wait for Westminster to bring high-speed rail to us,” she told a Glasgow conference n 2012.

    But ministers have since been forced to admit that Scotland will have to wait on the HS2 route coming north from England before such a service can be put in place.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scottish-government-has-dropped-glasgow-to-edinburgh-bullet-train-1-4034148

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Top UK civil servant reviews HS2 project

    Sir Jeremy Heywood reportedly analysing high-speed rail line to trim costs and gauge whether £55bn project can keep within budget

    "

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/02/top-uk-civil-servant-reviews-hs2-project

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "

    HS2 is an over-priced, gold-plated project and will fail in many of its objectives, a group of transport experts has warned.

    The academics support high-speed rail overall, but say HS2 is five times more expensive than its French equivalent.

    They argue that the benefits of HS2 can be achieved much more cheaply, with lower CO2 emissions, and they want their analysis examined by government.

    "

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36376837

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. Klaxon
    Member

    Everyone who sees/reads the anti-HS2 press release that will be re-published by all mainstream media today (one version linked above by chdot) should read this counter analysis to it as well

    'Beware the slow train to inertia central' by Nick Kingsley

    http://njak100.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/beware-slow-train-to-inertia-central.html

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    @Klaxon

    Interesting read/perspective.

    Both 'sides' of course make all sorts of assumptions about 'why we need it (or not)', whether it's 'value for money', 'environmentally friendly' etc.

    This bit is particularly interesting, especially the last sentence -

    "

    As a Rochdale native though, it is pleasing to see my home town get a mention, but the assertion that infrastructure designed to connect cities may indeed benefit cities like Manchester or Leeds is self-evident in an era of ongoing urbanisation. The authors seem to believe, as many HS2 critics do, that the railway is somehow an ‘isolated’ entity, rather than one which can plug into diverse networks at key nodes. It is noteworthy, but not mentioned in the dossier, that every one of HS2’s ‘out of town’ stations is planned to be served by urban rail routes.

    The economic development of places like Bradford or Rochdale is surely bound into that of the nearest big cities, and it is desirable for new infrastructure investment to facilitate regional mobility by removing capacity-eating long-distance traffic to dedicated routes and releasing capacity on existing corridors. This must remain an overarching objective of HS2.

    "

    Which sounds like a variation on the 'trickle down theory of economics'.

    The "Northern Powerhouse" concept requires better local infrastructure. Is this really dependent on the delivery of HS2 "removing capacity-eating long-distance traffic to dedicated routes and releasing capacity on existing corridors"?

    And, perhaps more important, there being any money left over.

    Clearly there are dangers/disadvantages in scaling down (or even scrapping) HS2, but it would be nice think there was the slight possibility that multiple objectives - better trains, a nicer Bradford, less car/plane use could all be in the plan/mix.

    Meanwhile in Scotland, not much chance of any direct HS2 link. Central Belt to Inverness (by rail) might be better than the A9 'promises'.

    We still await the unexpected consequences of FRB2!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. Klaxon
    Member

    Trickle down in a railway context works quite a bit better than finance where gains can be banked offshore.

    The most obvious example is rolling stock cascades where new stock anywhere results in the oldest stock anywhere else being retired. This will be very noticeable here over the next few years as we get electric trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

    The problem in the north of England has always been them being placed at the bottom of the trickle and so the franchisee gets everyone else's hand me downs.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

  29. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

    In short (apparently) -

    The taypayer-owned HS2 Ltd is a classic para-statal: a collage of trapped ministers, unaccountable officials, a bottomless budget and no risk.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin


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