CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
"Petrol prices reach all-time high"
(58 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
-
Aye, it doesn't take long to put a tenner in the car now. Doesn't take much longer to burn it either....
If only people would stop driving so much they might have the money to buy shiny things.
Posted 12 years ago # -
The answer is staring us in the face!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Marry a Pro cyclist and buy a tandem? Not sure that's really a global solution.
Posted 12 years ago # -
It's worth a shot though, eh?
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wonder if there is an interesting correlation to be drawn between the increase in petrol prices and the rise of the giant 4x4 from a means of transport for farmers to the vehicle of choice for people on their way to wait in a giant queue at Krispy Kreme?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Probably not, seeing as the car industry finally seems to have decided that investment in more efficient engines is a worthwhile exercise.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yes, but gains in engine efficiency must surely be greatly outweighed by the differential of energy required to propel a smaller car model of say fifteen years ago compared with propelling a wide-tyred, made-for-a-farmer's-field Chelsea Tractor? Add to which, the ridiculous tanks are typically driven like standard cars (diesel engine convention seems to be turbo diesel these days) which must further reduce any efficiency available to be realised.
The local mechanic at home recently told my Dad that it is pretty much the standard for tyres on a Range Rover to only last a year. A combination of driving style and the weight of the vehicle, apparently. Around £100 a pop for a low-medium priced tyre on a Range Rover.
Take the size of a brand new Mini off the factory line today and compare it to the size of a Mini from the 1990s. I don't know about relative weights, but my 1999 Corsa was easily around the same size as a brand new Mini is these days. And multi-occupancy small cars are certainly not the norm anywhere so I'd be sorely tempted to lay money on a causality argument, nevermind correlation.
Posted 12 years ago # -
A 2litre turbodiesel can be a very efficient engine. Our td saloon easily averages 50mpg overall (inc trailer towing)and about 60mpg heavily loaded on trips. Modern small diesels far outstrip motorcycles for mpg :-/
(VW Polo for one)
When I had an original type 1 litre mini it would do about 45mpg and struggle to better 50mpg...Posted 12 years ago # -
Supply and demand on a UK (or Edinburgh) level is unlikely to be enough to swing the price of oil one way or the other in the face of global economic factors like uncertainty of supply in the Middle East and growing demand for petrochemicals in Asia.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sorry, I'm a bit lost here, are we saying that petrol prices have gone up because people drive bigger cars?
(save for the name comparing a new Mini with an old Mini is really apples and pears because they're most certainly not intended to be the same type of car, would probably be more accurate to compare something like a Citroen C1 with an old Mini, while the new Mini comparison is with something like an... Allegro?).
Posted 12 years ago # -
MeepMeep: arguably the big technical achievement of the car industry in recent years has been to hugely increase the weight of cars - much of that increase going into improved occupant safety - while keeping the fuel consumption at least as good as it used to be back when the cars where a lot lighter. Increased occupant safety standards are why you no longer get, for example, Citroens with plastic body panels to save weight - very popular in the 1980s, but they don't absorb impact as well as metal ones. I think it was safety laws which finally killed the original Mini, or rather the cost of reingineering the thing to comply with them.
Posted 12 years ago # -
and yet... despite all the hype about safety, if you want to take a modern car onto a racetrack and compete, you must fit a proper rollcage, proper fixed seats, proper (minimum) four point seatbelts and actually properly seal the passenger compartment from the engine/fuel compartments. You also have to have means of extinguishing, or at least slowing down, fire.
You then have to wear a helmet and in the majority of classes some form of flameproof overalls.Shows how lip service is still paid to safety by the big producers (I imagine if you google Ralph Nader you'll find some info on their past failings). Oh and don't even start me on airbags!!
When everyone starts retro-fitting all cars with the above safety features I'll start taking seriously suggestions of compulsory plastic hats and hi-vis! (rant off...)
Posted 12 years ago # -
I think they are all too busy queueing at Krispy Krack to have noticed.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Krispy Krack
Superb!
Racing Car Safety Features
But when they're racing they're trying to go at the very limits of the car's and the driver's capabilities.
Hmm, OK, I take your point :-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
I started writing a response then realised I wanted to rant in a blog post.
http://mccraw.co.uk/why-the-government-must-not-cut-fuel-duty/
Sorry!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Why apologise?
"You want our old people and hard working families who rely less on their cars to pay for the ones that think they can’t do without? Not in my name."
Rant on!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
I often think we should have a cyclists' version of the Daily Mail to dip in and out of. When you feel like your world view is under threat, and need a bit of reinforcement... angry rants ahoy :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I often think we should have a cyclists' version of the Daily Mail"
I thought we had...
Posted 12 years ago # -
My old 1986 mini: 650kg
A New Mini: 1,200kg
My old Audi A4 Estate: 1,490kg
A 2012 "massively lighter"!? Range Rover: 2,400kgThe original Mini had a 33.5 litre petrol tank.
Current Range Rover has a 105 litre petrol tank.
Sadly, if you add in progressively bigger fuel tanks, the cars will tend to carry more weight around just carrying their own fuel.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Cars getting heavier to improve crashworthiness would seem to be a self-reinforcing trend, as the greatly increased weight increases the kinetic energy, therefore requiring the cars to continue getting stronger and therefore heavier.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@snowy, comparing any range rover tank with any mini tank is hardly relevant!
@kaputnik, only self reinforcing if the manufacturers choose... You may find large racing cars, they all meet the safety regs, but you seldom find heavy ones ;-)Posted 12 years ago # -
@smudge I assume to keep safety affordable they have to use a lot of steel, rather than more exotic components such as aluminium, magnesium alloy, GRP, carbon fibre.
Perhaps Reliant were onto something with their plastic "cars".
Posted 12 years ago # -
The tanks ought to get smaller as efficiency improves - that in turn will improve efficiency...
We get around 60mpg from our diesel Astra estate. I saw the other day that some of the Fabia estates are up around 85mpg, so could have a 50L tank instead of 85L and go the same distance. Saves carrying ~35kg!
Posted 12 years ago # -
@kaputnik, or they can just talk a lot about safety, do slightly more than the minimum required and pocket the savings? (And ask yourself why you never see a racing car with an airbag!!)
@Dave, bang on, but a big tank = a big range = longer between fillups, so if the topup isn't wildly (more) expensive it *feels* more economical, and that keeps people buying their cars ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Didn't we calculate how much fuel weighs and decide its wasn't really that much in relation to the car or occupants.
Ah yes, http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4243
Fuel weight is less than 5% of the unladen weight of a 406. I suspect the relationship between vehicle size and fuel tank capacity means that the fuel weight is never more than 10% of the unladen weight.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Petrol weighs c. 71% that of equivalent volume of water, so a 35l tank reduction is a 24.9kg weight reduction.
Possibly a "big shop" for many people.
Posted 12 years ago # -
And with a kerbweight of about 1150 kg that's not a significant saving of weight, 2.1%. Thats the difference between going out with no water or two water bottles for an average weight cyclist.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Thats the difference between going out with no water or two water bottles for an average weight cyclist.
The old hands know that the secret is to transfer bidons from the frame to your pocket before ascending a hill, to lower the bike weight.
Posted 12 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
