I own a flat in a new build Barratt East Scotland Development where the builder is at least 60% short of the one cycle space per-flatted dwelling (what was required at the time of planning consent). I have just discussed this with the Barrett sales person who has told me that the issue is “there are too many cyclist living on the development”. Just wondering what others experiences are of such issues within new build developments. I have tried to raise the issue with the planning enforcement team at the council but they do not seem that interested. Any thoughts or comments welcomed.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
New build developments and cycle parking
(20 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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I suppose you need to find out if they were granted consent based on providing one space per flat or not (rather than it just being the policy at the time)?
Does seem a bit pathetic, I agree. It's not like it's hard to provision when you're starting with a big empty field...
Posted 12 years ago # -
The one space per dwelling was part of the conditions attached to planning approval and was a requirement at the point of granting the permission.The issue is that the bike store is one bike short of full.
Posted 12 years ago # -
If anyone would know, it would be spokes. They seem to have ample experience of every imaginable situation, so I would drop them a line.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Do these flats have a factor (a Glasgow solution not normally found in Edinburgh, where common repairs are often still allocated pro rate on the rateable value of the property (anyone remember domestic rates - pre
pollcouncil tax?) or do you have a service charge?There have been some serviced flats, where an inclusive package offers bike hire scheme access, or other facilities (car club membership etc). Was this built as a car-fee development? If this is the case the developer makes a bigger gain on the land because they can typically build 50% more flats with the land no longer needed to build car access and parking, and flats are a more profitable use for the land than car parking.
Bike parking is an interesting area - area being the operative word, A typical bike footprint is 0.7 sq m, with a height requirement of at least 1.2 m to fit a bike without a child seat. But in the real world you need a height of at least 2.4 m to walk in to and an area of at least 2 sq m for parking a bike rolled in to it, from an area not included in that figure. For large multiple- bike stores it is very hard to deliver anything lower than 1.2 sq m per bike including access to place and remove individual bikes. 2-tier bike parking looks impressive, but requires a clear height of at least 2.6m to work properly, and almost 2.5 metres of space in front of the rack to line up and load bikes.
Did Barrett fail to deliver the correct number of bikes to be stored or badly miscalculate the space required. Any chance of a picture and sketch to show what you have now?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Planning Circular 10/2009 states "Planning authorities have a general discretion to take enforcement action against any breach of planning control if they consider such action to be expedient, having regard to the provisions of the development plan and any other material considerations."
This means that planning authorities can take enforcement action at their discretion.
Here is how I would deal with this.
1. Establish that there has been a breach of condition, i.e. are there more flats than bike spaces.
2. Write to head of planning with evidence of breach and ask for a Breach of Condition Notice to be issued
3. Write to your local Councillors asking for the same - also pointing out Council's commitment to cyclingYou may also be interested in the Council's planning enforcement charter, which you can find at:
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/1591/enforcement_charter
This sets out what the Council should do and is a useful reference for any correspondence with the Council, i.e. point out how they are not meeting their own commitments.
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns)
24/02/2013 10:49
@CyclingEdin @Edinburgh_CC I would raise such an issue directly with the Head of Planning; @planningedin may also be able to advise? Andrew."
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Peter Matthews (@urbaneprofessor)
24/02/2013 11:15
@CyclingEdin Edinburgh's enforcement team are a bit over worked so focus on big issues, but I'd carry on them to enforce the condition.Peter Matthews (@urbaneprofessor)
24/02/2013 11:16
@CyclingEdin can go to the SPSO if they refuse to do anything (if it is a condition)"
Posted 12 years ago # -
The bike store is within the underground car. The racks used are I think called low hoop cycle racks.
There is no floor space left to install additional racks so the idea of some 2-tier cycle racks might work as a replacement for some of the racks. The current racks are not the best either as it is difficult to fit bikes into some of the spaces.
As part of the planning permission Barratt were required to provide around 233 spaces but they have only provided around 96 spaces. I think Barratt have under estimated the space required and are hopping they will get away with not providing the correct number of spaces as per what they were required to provide.
Our factor did after some pressure request that bikes are registered with them. This helped initialy clear some abandoned bikes but now the store is full with registered bikes so back to square one.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sounds worth keeping track of as it could be written up as an article on how not to do this for AJ or other magazines the architects and planners read.
Rack type - of made to traditional British dimensions ahd 60cm allowance for 'bars not Dutch 75 cm allowance, so many bikes won't fit
Cannot get 2-tier unless 2.6m ceiling height or 'short bikes on half of upper tiers.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Slightly related -
"Want cycle parking ON your street??"
Posted 12 years ago # -
@CDM those are very like racks we have in the work basement and agree they're rather useless and an inneficient use of space - Sheffield Stands much better and if you have multiple bikes can secure them to the one rack.
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Edinburgh Planning (@planningedin)
25/02/2013 11:50
@CyclingEdin p.50 mentions bike storage and various mentions of cycle paths. Have you reported the storage issue? @urbaneprofessor
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Bike store
Cycle parking is integrated into the architectural design. It should be secure and undercover. In new housing Planning will seek for it to be built into the housing and accessed of common stairs. .Posted 12 years ago # -
Thanks all for the postings. I have written to the Head of Planning so will wait and see what comes back. I will then contact SPOKES for advice at that point. I am aware SPOKES have had similar issues reported to them in respect of other new developments in Edinburgh so will be interesting to see what happens. Barratt's response "there are too many cyclist" is still frustrating given that they have clearly not built the building to the agreed planning permission/standard.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Barratt's response "there are too many cyclist" is still frustrating
And/or they don't believe the theory and practice of (n+1).
What strikes me every time I ride past the flats at Meggetland View, or the newer flats at Westfield Avenue, is the orderly expanse of car parking, and nothing at all for bikes. Even the wheelie bins have their own neat little wooden sheds with doors and doorhandles and windowboxes and wallpaper and hot and cold running water. It's as though People Need to Drive, but nobody cycles, and anyone who buys a bicycle...well they'll probably find somewhere, since bikes don't occupy any space, and anyway in the winter they'll all use the bus instead.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Are there good examples in Edinburgh?
Posted 12 years ago # -
The Meggetland development was required to have cycle parking too but what it does have is tiny cupboards in which bikes can only be stacked on top of one another (so if yours isn't at the front, tough) and not locked to anything. Just a box ticking exercise.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Are there good examples in Edinburgh?"
I have seen largish bike sheds in developments around Sandport Place, Dalmeny Street and some others.
Probably not 'enough' for the coming storm of bicycle use (and n+1).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Over the New year I made several visits by bike to the housing developments around Easter Dalry/Duff street, and was pleasantly surprised by the good interconnections through the area, and the covered bike parking. Of course, this was not secure parking, but still, I was pleased to see that there had been decent provision made.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Rack type - of made to traditional British dimensions ahd 60cm allowance for 'bars not Dutch 75 cm allowance, so many bikes won't fit.
The racks at my work are a mix; they have spacing that varies from 74cm on the new ones to 87cm on the older ones to 104cm on the oldest ones. The 74cm spacing makes it very tight to fit a recumbent bike and a regular bike side by side.
The racks also have separate canopies which limit the space available on the outermost stands. Here the newest ones give 54cm, the older ones give 45cm and the oldest ones have as little as 18cm, which reduces the covered capacity by two bikes per rack.
Posted 12 years ago #
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