CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
closedWhat these signs inadvertently say to the "local estate traffic" is this:
Just put your foot down, the cyclists will just have take their chances and get out of your way, they've been warned."
Really?
I mean....
REALLY??!
So much I want to write, have typed a number of things and deleted, because it all just boils down to...
REALLY?!??!??!
Can't help but feel that you are in a rather small minority in your interpretation of this o_0
REALLY?!??!??!
yeah, really.
i make no apology for my interpretation of the situation.
i've made it clear that this is the inadvertent message that's being sent to estate traffic via these signs.
an aggressive driver is already on record as saying that we have "access" but not "right of way".
ie. get out of my way.
there are issues with vehicle speed around vulnerable road users on the estate, and i think these one sided signs are amplifying that.
there's long been signage for people to take care around lambs on the estate.
cyclists and pedestrians aren't lambs, but someone could well get hurt because of aggressive driving that is being enabled via one sided BEWARE signage.
@focus*
At no point did I say the estate workers didn't need signs
you pretty much did, in your opening remark, which you set up as a contrast to my message.
*edited, with apologies, to remove gratuitously antagonistic use of the word "son"
Maybe, just maybe, shouldn't != didn't.
Can't help but feel that you are in a rather small minority in your interpretation of this
i'm quite comfortable with that, stiltskin !
excessive homogeny would make this forum a boring place.
o_O sorry but you're trolling now, and deliberately trying to antagonise people. Please don't.
This is on the whole a pleasant and polite forum where everyone is free to (politely) express their opinions, it's one of the great strengths of this place.
If you want to argue the internet is full of places where that is acceptable, feel free to do so there. If you want to *discuss* things, then please do here.
All the above imho. I am not a moderator, site owner or anything else, just a cyclist.
S
i am discussing things, smudge. quite clearly.
Cool. Thank you for the edit.
"i've made it clear that this is the inadvertent message that's being sent to estate traffic via these signs.
an aggressive driver is already on record as saying that we have "access" but not "right of way"."
The fact it's 'inadvertent' or not is neither here nor there really. What you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that aggressive drivers in Dalmeny will, because there are no signs telling them to beware of cyclists, deliberately run over cyclists (with the added reasoning that because one driver said that cyclists only have 'access' that 'access' also means drivers can run over cyclists?).
Or, could it be that an aggressive driver is an aggressive driver and a sign telling an aggressive driver to beware cyclists would have naff all impact on that aggressive driver?
What you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that aggressive drivers in Dalmeny will, because there are no signs telling them to beware of cyclists, deliberately run over cyclists
No... what I'm saying is that drivers on the estate are noting the signage and inferring that the burden of responsibility obviously lies fully with the cyclist to "beware", ie. get out of the way, of me, me who is the "local estate traffic".
These drivers already feel that cyclists are not particularly welcome, and will not typically recognise their own duty of care to slow down around vulnerable road users.
Since they can plainly see that there are a number of signs telling the cyclists to "beware" of them, the native traffic -- they are further enabled in this view. So why slow down even a little? Why not aggressively make the point that they aren't particuarly welcome?
could it be that [...] a sign telling an aggressive driver to beware cyclists would have naff all impact on that aggressive driver
Possibly, but it least it would be clearly recognised as specifically out of order.
Just as it would be for a cyclist to take a blind summit or corner at speed, without considering there might be a lamb or two hanging around. Or even a land rover.
This diversion remains in place for two months, possibly more.
Questionable driving has been noted from the outset -- how long before the stakes are raised, on a miserable monday morning, and some innocent cyclist is run off the road entirely, to their injury, a situation enabled because the signs all point only to the non-native cyclist's obligations around native traffic?
That the estate recognises the equitable rights of all road users is being held in some quarters to be self-evident.
I'm saying that it is anything but self-evident.
By the way I've no idea who put all the diversion and beware signs up. I'm not assuming it was definitely the estate.
Regardless, there should be advisory signs for all road users, not just one class of user.
If anyone is wondering why this thread has calmed down a bit, it's because I took temporary moderating action earlier.
This was started as a serious thread in response to a real problem.
It then turned into a debate about what signs were intended to mean and what they may or may not mean in practice.
There are people with points of view that seem impossible to reconcile.
Sometimes there are 'discussions' on here where the participants know each other in 'real life' and can contain mutually understandable 'shorthand' which means that some comments might be more tongue in cheek than the casual reader might appreciate.
I get the impression that this is not the case here.
I have decided to close this thread - not something I do very often (usually to stop parallel threads developing.
I am starting a new one for people to mention actual incidents and any responses they may get from the Dalmeny Estate.
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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