On the Spokes submission - all fine but note the emphasis on a new rail connection Edinburgh to Perth? I recently travelled by train to Perth from Edinburgh in a way that was novel to me, Went over Forth, through Fife until reached The Tay, turned left and hugged the south bank of the Tay through Wormit, Newport and Tayport. Was very nice journey. THis was a saturday morning and quicker by a minute than the other inland route, Pre Beeching was this the way to get to St Andrews (but turn right at The Tay - for the Golf?). Many of the train stations of Scotland appear to have been developed to transport golfers to courses.??
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
STPR2 - Transport Scotland’s Second Strategic Transport Projects Review
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Posted 4 years ago #
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@gembo I thought they had been developed to transport sportsmen to hunting lodges.
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Posted 4 years ago # -
Never underestimate the importance of pilgrimage in the development of Scotland's transport links. Shrines, relics, golf courses, grouse farms etc.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Went over Forth, through Fife”
Presumably close to the water after Aberdour?
There is a possible variation.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G23481/2020-01-10/detailed
There is a plan to build a new line to cut out Rosyth and Dunfermline. No idea how much of a serious probability that is.
Of course the direct route was replaced by a motorway.
That presumably was at a time when there were serious expectations of ‘no railway north of the Forth’.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo, I assume you mean you reached the Eden estuary before turning inland and hitting the Tay at Wormit. Unless I have missed something the Tayport and Newport line was shut by Beeching.
The St Andrews Spur left the mainline just south of Leuchars Station. I think that there is currently a feasibility study looking into reopening this line which would probably now get more student than golf traffic.
Posted 4 years ago # -
submitted - I thought it was reasonably straightforward. with the interpretation/advice above. Thanks all
Posted 4 years ago # -
Done. I pointed out that Transport Scotland might want to do something about all the single track sections of the Borders Railway before housebuilding gets out of hand.
Also, @gembo: I will check but I think that is a slight simplification of cis. No, fimm was right. Cis(gender) means your gender identity matches or is consistent with the sex you were assigned at birth. The logical opposite is transgender. Intersex people may or may not be cis.
Most people are not trans, and don't ever give the notion of being 'cis' or 'cis-het' a second thought.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo "all fine but note the emphasis on a new rail connection Edinburgh to Perth? I recently travelled by train to Perth from Edinburgh in a way that was novel to me, Went over Forth, through Fife until reached The Tay, turned left and hugged the south bank of the Tay through Wormit, Newport and Tayport."
Typical route for a ScotRail Edinburgh to Inverness train is:
- Haymarket
Edinburgh Gateway
Inverkeithing
Kirkcaldy
Markinch
Ladybank
PerthYou can indeed see Dundee and Tay as single track part of line from Ladybank goes north then descends west above Newburgh and through upper Abernethy.
@kaputnik would confirm that this was the main line from a busy pre Forth Bridge Burntisland north when Fife was almost an island. Route then was train through Scotland St tunnel to Granton, ferry and then train north through Fife.
Of course running buses on M90 is faster although most get slowed up on Park and Ride at Ferry Toll, Halbeath and often deposit you at Broxden where you change to take shuttle bus into city. (One of my Google places of note last year and a name often prefixed with 'Traffic queues at')LNER train to Perth and Inverness goes via Stirling which can be slower. Track capacity in Fife is extremely challenged and the restoration of the Glenfarg route would be obvious thing to do.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Transform Scotland
@TransformScotScottish Ministers' spending plans already commit us to even more high-carbon infrastructure. This is not compatible with the #ClimateEmergency.
Tell @transcotland to stop burning the planet building new roads in its #STPR2 survey which closes tomorrow. http://socsi.in/YrSW8
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Track capacity in Fife is extremely challenged”
Which is why there is a plan to have a new line north from D Bay.
Main(?) problem is timetabling stopping trains and ‘express’ ones.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@arellcat, not wishing to split hairs and more than happy to be corrected. I do not think that not trans=cis. As in logical terms trans May be the opposite of cis. Is it? But If we have folk that are gender queer, gender fluid, a-gender, androgynous, bi-gender. Then there is no way we can apply logical opposites as there needs to be a binary element for that??
The main point of course that IWRATS is cis gender (regardless of whether he is gay or straight, stands).
Feminine-of-centre, masculine-of-centre, which I did not know about until now. Are further gender categories that transcend a binary classifciation.
So regardless of the sex one is assigned, one’s gender can be different or the same. Agreed. But trans means across? So moving across from one gender to another. But it looks like there are now genders in between one gender or another and indeed folk that switch about from various points of gender? So all a bit fluid and not quite fitting into logical categories of strict logic?
Posted 4 years ago # -
The main point of course that IWRATS is cis gender (regardless of whether he is gay or straight, stands).
What makes you think that? I am genuinely curious. I don't even know what the term means.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Means you are the same gender as the sex you were born with. Same as me. Also many people who get to the end of surveys and wonder why the consulters are so curious about gender, sex, age, et cetera
Posted 4 years ago # -
folk that are gender queer, gender fluid, a-gender, androgynous, bi-gender
These identities all fall within the transgender umbrella. 'Trans' is now considered to extend beyond the binary, but a lot of people think of transgender as being the same as transsexual, which is a more specific term. Bi-gender is related to gender fluid but tends to be towards the binaries and can be simultaneous or alternating, while fluid tends to vary across both the spectrum and time.
Some people say they have 'no gender identity': they either are genuinely and knowingly agender and arrange their lives as such, typically through androgyny; or they have never had cause to question their gender identity because it is beyond self-evident, it's automatic, and quiescent; and for those individuals to make the mental leap from 'no GI therefore technically trans' is illogical and a little insulting to people who are trans. I know people on both sides of the 'no GI' determination.
Feminine-of-centre, masculine-of-centre
These names are new to me, too, but I would consider them to be in the same family as non-binary. NB doesn't have to mean right in the middle of the spectrum; there are all degrees of NBness, and NBness in gender identity is often but not always matched by the equivalent gender expression.
And surveys ask those kinds of questions because transport policies can and do impact on protected characteristics. For example, a car park policy that prevents non-disabled people from using designated spaces makes sense: we see it everywhere; but a good policy needs to allow for people who are temporarily mobility impaired, such as someone who is post-op, TAH-BSO for example, and can't or should not walk far.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo
But what is 'gender'?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Maybe read some of the EXTENSIVE writing about this topic.
There's also a sort of assumption that noone reading this forum is trans and "we" can discuss whether or not their existence is real/meaningful/aligns with "our" obviously superior - and somehow more objective - understanding of the world unbothered by the fact that this isn't just a fun intellectual argument.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“unbothered by the fact that this isn't just a fun intellectual argument“
Indeed.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@unhurt, I have a niece who identifies as gender queer so it is more than a fun intellectual argument for me. I am sorry if i gave this impression.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Oh, pooh, they cynically always do these sort of "consultations" during the depths of winter, when I am sure I am not the only person whose body requires a period of semi-hibernation and is not yet entirely awake again mentally. I'm sure that's a deliberate decision on their part to minimise responses, which is surely discriminatory.
Anyway, the survey itself still seems to be available, although technically past the closing date, although I'm not sure if my submission was successful, as I just got a blank page after submitting? :-(
Posted 4 years ago # -
Both my workplace and the Scottish Government have just asked me what my 'gender' is so it's not a fun intellectual anything. It's a hard practical question.
I would happily leave people who find the term useful to carry on using it amongst themselves, but it is now being inserted into my life in employment and transport surveys.
Also, I was taught at a very young age not to use words unless I know what they mean and I think it was one of the best lessons I have ever had. If people keep using this word I will keep asking what they mean by it.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Iwrats
Is it because nouns have a gender in French?
Which is a different meaning to say 50 years of Gender Studies?
Your issue with the forms seems odd to me, they usually have an answer section you can tick or probably leave blank?
Posted 4 years ago # -
IWRATS, for very many people, 'sex' and 'gender' are synonymous and interchangeable, that is to say, one's biological sex, one's psychological identity, and one's physical and social presentation amongst society are all congruent. If that's you, then great. No fuss, no muss. But confusion is to be expected when we conflate sex with gender without understanding the intricacies. As Gembo notes, not all that very long ago, there was no conflation.
When we talk about 'biological sex', we're conditioned to think in terms of the binary. There are numerous complications of development which science now knows about, that show that nature actually creates many subtle variations of biological sex. Some of those variations are revealed externally, many are not. And if we are nitpicking even by what we mean by biological sex, then we might consider part A plugging into part B to make C. Variations can mean parts A or B don't look or don't operate as one might normally expect, or that parts A and B look fine but actually don't work at all, meaning that C doesn't happen; or even that parts A and B look and work fine and make C, but it turns out they were developed on an obscure flavour of Linux instead of Windows.
When we talk about 'gender', we often do so without really understanding what we mean. Gender is the end product when one combines developmental biology with one's identity, which is itself a product of, and influenced by, one's own actions in society (expression, presentation) – in terms of the prevailing expectations of masculinity and femininity and all points between – and how society responds (social institutions) to that behaviour. Think of 'gender' less as a noun and more as an adjective. The EA2010 uses 'gender' because that is the basis on which people respond daily to other people, and its very malleability also provides people with safety.
We like to talk about Venn diagrams, but in this instance, for a ready-reckoner, I would suggest referring to the Genderbread Person. If you want the full whack, Wikipedia has far more than I have the energy to summarise.
Gembo mentioned genderqueer: there is a wiki page for that, too.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Arellcat
Thanks very much - that Genderbread site is very well written. I'd take issue with bits of it, but overall it's good. The author(s) have, I think, mislocated the binary nature of sex in the human diploid phase (us) and not in the haploid phase (our gametes) but that's pretty arcane and of little interest to transport planners.
What I can't understand is why the Scottish Government would attempt to record such a complex, nuanced and personal concept in a radio button with (if I remember correctly) four options. Nor can I understand why anyone would reveal any aspect of their fantasies, anatomy and sex lives to Transport Scotland. And they don't seem to be interested in people who simply aren't interested in using the concept of 'gender' of which I would be one in almost all situations as I find labels to often be unhelpful.
PS Like most folk who have had management reponsibility I have of course read the Equalities Act 2010 and it uses sex, not gender, as a protected characteristic, though it does also use 'gender reassignment' which seems to be a matter of medical record. That is one's doctor could testify to that status in the event of a dispute.
PPS Reading the wiki page on 'genderqueer' I actually have some of those attributes. I would guess that most people do.
Posted 4 years ago # -
record such a complex, nuanced and personal concept in a radio button with (if I remember correctly) four options.
One of those was "Prefer to self describe", which brought up a wee box to type in, if that helps?
Another was "Prefer not to say", of course. There was also the option to not even say that you'd prefer not to say.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Other
Not relevant to the current surveyEt cetera?
Posted 4 years ago # -
One general question is how much people of whatever whateverness prefer a comprehensive list of all known options or a short list including “none of your business”?!
The real question, outlined above, is to what extent any answers are taken any notice of.
Or is it all really a tickbox exercise by/for whoever ordered/devised the (any) survey.
In these days of Google/Facebook/Cambridge Analytica et al, answering any personal questions accurately is perhaps unwise(?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
I HAVE lied to facebook about my birthday though not as much as uberuce did about his
The last spokes consultation end list thingy had 40-59 Years of age as a category which was pleasing to me as i plummet downwards.
The way the gender question answers was set out also seemed better than some.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Frenchy
Thanks. Again, underlines the impossibility (I imagine) of incorporating this data item in any analysis. It simply isn't discrete.
@chdot
I'm far more scared of the British state than Facebook.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Nor can I understand why anyone would reveal any aspect of their fantasies, anatomy and sex lives to Transport Scotland. And they don't seem to be interested in people who simply aren't interested.
What is fantasies doing in that list? Are you conflating gender with sexual orientation? And are you also suggesting orientation (implicit "other than straight") is a matter of personal fantasies? Or are you alluding to the transphobic trope that trans people (actually trans women - noone seems to remember trans men exist) are actually just extreme fetishists acting out in public?
Meanwhile your assumption that transport planners should consider stuff like this irrelevant is, to say the least, revealing of your assumptions / experience that this stuff doesn't impact people's lives - including how they move around the world.
PS Like most folk who have had management reponsibility I have of course read the Equalities Act 2010 and it uses sex, not gender, as a protected characteristic, though it does also use 'gender reassignment' which seems to be a matter of medical record. That is one's doctor could testify to that status in the event of a dispute.
I really hope you have not and will never so much as suggest someone bring you a doctor's line informing you in detail of medical interventions that have accessed to settle a dispute about their gender. Because that's an extraordinary and horrible concept. May as well demand a look in their underwear.
You understand, of course, that there are plenty of trans people who would like to access medical aspects of transition and are unable to, for a wide variety of reasons.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Nor can I understand why anyone would reveal any aspect of their fantasies, anatomy and sex lives to Transport Scotland
This is quite insulting. Those three things have absolutely nothing to do with the question being asked, which is based on how you identify within society, as I already explained upthread.
Asking someone's gender is not asking about their biological sex, even though it may have the same answer. It is not asking about their predilections in forming relationships. It is not asking about what they like to do behind closed doors.
Posted 4 years ago #
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