CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
ALSO
If you have NON cycling friends/relations - especially living in area - it would be good if they could be persuaded to contact cllrs etc.
This is NOT a 'cyclists' winge'.
Changing infrastructure/attitudes is important for everyone - apart from the hard-core 'motorists'.
It's about quality of life not just transport.
"Hi,
I'm writing to express my concern and disappointment over the neutering of the 20mph pilot scheme in South Edinburgh.
I live just inside the scheme boundary and so will be affected by it every day. What really excited me was the inclusion of roads that we actually use to get around the city - Strathern to the Grange, Marchmont Rd / Kilgraston, West Mains Rd etc.
Without the inclusion of these roads, the scheme is largely meaningless for southside residents since it is already the case that small residential streets have lower true traffic speeds and a friendlier environment. If I want to cycle to work the sum impact of the scheme will be that 60 feet of deserted road between me and West Mains Rd is now 20mph.
The two main 'holes below the waterline' seem to have come from the police and Lothian buses. If I might address each of these in turn:
The Police say that they would not be willing to enforce the speed limit within the zone. Speaking purely to the practical implications, I really can't see why this is so significant.
I've been living in Edinburgh for just over ten years and have never seen the police operating a speed trap on any of these roads under the current 30mph limit. To put it another way - nobody would accept a new residential area having a 60mph speed limit although we all know the police will not be operating speed traps to catch motorists ignoring the conventional 30mph reduction!
Many such as myself would take great pleasure in sticking to the new limit and this would control a significant proportion of traffic at a time when most people are moving about.
Lothian buses object on the grounds that reducing the maximum speed between stops will cost money as services must be added, or even cause some services to become unviable. Without wishing to call this a barefaced lie, I question in the strongest possible terms whether this can actually be the case.
The vast majority of the time any given bus will already be travelling around or below 20mph (either bus service I get to our office in Leith averages around 13mph, according to my GPS) so it's hard to imagine how small sections of 20mph limit could impact a service so severely.
For instance, Esselmont Rd is just over 500m long. Assuming the bus achieved top speed instantly from the lights and didn't have to stop, it would "cost" 18 seconds to reduce the limit from 30 to 20mph.
In practice, the figure is much less because the bus must speed up and slow down gradually and heaven forbid there may be passengers to pick up or let off! Is any service really so borderline that ten seconds delay would kill it off? People don't choose the bus because they're in a rush, after all!
I'm too much of a cynic to expect that writing in will have any influence over proceedings, but I feel the need to vent my frustration over the failure of this proposal.
It was the first genuinely exciting proposal I remember in a city which is hounded by things like the farce of the trams (something which I was genuinely excited about until it went, ahem, so badly off the rails - but let's not go there!)
Your most abject and humble servant, etc ."
Curses, I use 'genuinely exciting' twice in the final paragraph. Amateurish fail. :Z
"
AndrewDBurns:
@CyclingEdin Committee Members will be discussing it next week prior to the meeting - several relevant people still on holiday this week :-(
Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/AndrewDBurns/status/96862264606461953
"
Andrew Burns is Labour Group leader.
Hmmm made the fatal mistake of reading the comments... must....not....reply......!
A long time since I've read such a lot of pseudo-engineering twaddle, and all to justify driving round a 30mph limit in 3rd gear! Alternative petrol head? he'd be laughed off most driving courses I've participated in, sigh. (and his two friends have even less idea than him, licences really shouldn't be issued to the terminally stupid)
Sadly I didn't have enough knowledge of the engineering side to argue with them on that. What I found funny was after mentioning my car suggests a gear to be in one of the replies was just "Then your car is lying". I find it odd that a car manufacturer would install a facility that actually made you damage the car... And mine DOES take account of when you're on a hill, or accelerating quickly, to give you a different suggestion (not that I always listen - it's set up to tell you the most 'economical' gear to be in).
The other thing I was pondering as well is that they write off these proposals as environmental twaddle, pushed by the eco sandal-wearing beardy anti-car types. But then one of their reasons for thinking we shouldn't have a 20mph limit is because it's not environmentally beneficial.
They do self-contradict all over the place! (I actually got involved for a purpose - quotes from the council's consultation paper will be used in the next citycycling, and I thought I'd fish for some more... ;) )
Yup masses of contradictions, and lots of nonsense as usual. The whole gearbox failure thing is a red herring, ask any garage how many gearboxes they change and the mechanics will usually have to have a think to remember when the last one was, they are very reliable.
It is possible to damage/destroy them by lugging in a tall gear but you have to be spectacularly unsympathetic usually. In my experience, far more common is driving in too low a gear coupled with aggressive acceleration and deceleration (sounds like high octane dunderheads description of his own style) leading to wear and slop in the transmission generally.
But lets face it, it's not about economy, of component life, or safety, it's all about some sad individuals who place above all else their perceived right to drive about the city "quickly" (although we all know it's hardly any faster than driving sensibly) regardless on the impact on everyone else.
My "car" has 16 gears anyway.
and is a lot quieter at peak revs!
The average speeds argument is odd as well.
I was thinking about this last night, I am 6 miles from the office, it takes me 30 mins by bike, give or take.
But when I drive, the variation is startling - busy times, could be as much as 45 mins (8 mph!!), and the absolute best I can hope for (really early, catch the lights etc) is 15 mins - (24 mph).
Exactly how much police time would be needed to enforce this change? I cant fathom it, most of the time the traffic will be relatively slow anyway.
p.s. I do realise that average speeds indicate that the top and bottom speeds can have a big variation - but we have all been in town traffic - its slow...
"The average speeds argument is odd as well."
@Nelly - as you have shown 'it all depends'.
I think some of the numerately illiterate think that 30-20 must mean a 50% increase in journey time (or even the 33 1/3 that it 'really' is)
That, of course, on a journey with no traffic, lights, junctions etc.
BUT even if these winghers manage to bowl along at 30 (no more of course) at light traffic parts of the day, is it right that they should expect to be able to do this in residential areas??
"In my experience, far more common is driving in too low a gear coupled with aggressive acceleration and deceleration"
This sounds like a very familiar style for quite a few drivers and I am sure it must have a far greater effect on petrol consumption than merely sticking to 20mph would. Not to mention all the engine revving at traffic lights or when tailgating a cyclist. Some drivers must waste a great deal of fuel this way..
@Min, I was meaning my experience of worn/damaged transmission components, but yes, I also agree with your comments :)
I knew that but just sort of extrapolated it since it is kind of related to the discussion anyway. ;-)
Hmmm selective quoting, always been careful of it since I read the actual full text of the infamous "rivers of blood" speech (which most tabloids would have you believe stands next to Mein Kampf* in extremism) and discovered it is very different to the image presented!
An observation not a criticism of your post ;-)
*read about half of that to try to gain a better understanding of the history of the pre-war period, my advice is don't bother unless you have a deep fascination for twenties European politics, it is supremely tedious! I have to confess I only managed about half though, it may have become more exciting later on (though I doubt it...)
Smudge- it wasn't supposed to be selective quoting in the misrepresentation sense. You made a point about gear boxes and I made the point that this style of driving must also burn more petrol. I didn't quote the entire post because anyone following the thread would have read it anyway so I only quoted the part that was relevant to what I wanted to say. If I caused any sort of mild offense or confusion I am sorry, I had thought it was all clear.
No worries Min, it's all fine, no offense and I'm permanently confused anyway ;-)).
Your quote just served to remind me how easy it is for a quote to appear to say something other than that intended once it is edited, as I say not a crticism, I was just kind of thinking aloud and (well, not loud, but in type...) and rambling on online as usual :-)
Ah yes I know what you mean. I have always been a bit confused by the whole rivers of blood thing too. Tangental discussion CCE style. ;-)
"I think some of the numerately illiterate think..."
"
Johnson claimed that retaining the 20mph speed limit was unecessary. He said: "My information is that the general speed there is in fact nearly 12mph, therefore a speed limit of 20 is not necessary and could be a serious impediment to smooth traffic flow."
"
http://guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/jul/29/cyclists-flashride-blackfriars-bridge
That's another one of those strange comments. If the average speed is 12mph then why would he object to 20mph limmit?
Popped out earlier in the car to do some research.
Drove along beaufort / grange road toward bike station.
It was quiet, tried to drive at 20, pretty soon had some annoyed followers, moved to 30, and they were still pushing me to go faster.
So far so unscientific.
Did it a couple more times, and it seems that everyone takes the limit there as 'advisory' and drives quickly if its quiet - pretty much as we thought.
I imagine its slower now as its busy time.
No sign of anyone policing the 30 limit........
"
To: emailable Spokes members in South Edinburgh
[NB - this list is automatically generated from our member database - it you have given us a new address in the last few weeks it may not yet have been updated]
Dear Spokes member
As you probably know, the Council is proposing a 20mph zone in a wide area of South Central Edinburgh. Originally this was to exclude all the 'through' roads, but following a widespread public consultation last year the following were included in the roads to be given the 20mph limit...
1. Ratcliffe Terrace and Causewayside between the junctions with Fountainhall Road and West Preston Street, which forms part of the planned Quality Bike Corridor
2. the north-south Marchmont Road-Kilgraston Road-Blackford Avenue West Mains Road-Esslemont Road route
3. the east-west Churchill -Strathearn Road-Grange Road route.
Earlier this year the council advertised for objections the Traffic Regulation Order to introduce the 20mph scheme (as it is legally obliged to do). They received 7 objections or 'concerned' letters (including Lothian Buses and the Police) whilst 21 responses supported the scheme.
Unfortunately, as a result, the council is now proposing that 2 and 3 above will remain at 30mph, with only the short section in 1 being reduced to 20mph. [Of course, all the residential, minor/side roads in the area will still become 20mph].
Councillors are to vote on this on Tuesday (August 2) at the Transport Committee, so the situation is urgent.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE THE 20MPH ZONE TO INCLUDE ALL THE ABOVE ROADS - OR IF YOU THINK SOME OF THEM ARE PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT - PLEASE EMAIL YOUR COUNCILLORS NOW.
Ask your councillors to speak about this to their party representatives on the Transport Committee, and to support you direct if they are on the Transport Committee themself. Spokes hopes to have a deputation at the Committee, and our case will be helped greatly if councillors have already been hearing from individual consituents.
Find your councillors (you have either 3 or 4 councillors, depending on where you live) at http://www.writetothem.com.
If you'd like more details see the 29 July news item on the Spokes website http://www.spokes.org.uk.
with thanks
Dave du Feu
for Spokes
"
"
Different people have different views - for example, motorists often want more parking, cyclists more cycle paths and bus passengers more frequent buses and more bus lanes. Pedestrians want pleasant and safe streets. We have to make difficult choices to try to strike a fair balance and ensure the city's transport network continues to flow smoothly for all of us.
"
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/1528/transport_policy/548/transport_planning
"flow smoothly for all of us"
The ultimate impossibility?
The Transport, Infrastructure and Environment Committee
Purpose of Committee
To deal with issues relating to transport planning, roads, flood prevention, trading standards, parks and green space, waste and sustainability.
Membership (e-mails at bottom)
Councillor Gordon Mackenzie (Convener) Ward: Southside/Newington Party: Liberal Democrat Group
Councillor Aldridge (Vice-Convener) Ward: Drum Brae/Gyle Party: Liberal Democrat Group
Councillor Barry Ward: Colinton/Fairmilehead Party: Labour Group
Councillor Buchanan Ward: Liberton/Gilmerton Party: Scottish National Party
Councillor Burgess Ward: Southside/Newington Party: Scottish Green Group
Councillor Dundas Ward: City Centre Party: Liberal Democrat Group
Councillor Elliott-Cannon Ward: Sighthill/Gorgie Party: Scottish National Party
Councillor Hawkins Ward: Portobello/Craigmillar Party: Liberal Democrat Group
Councillor Hinds Ward: Inverleith Party: Labour Group
Councillor Jackson Ward: Forth
Party: Conservative Group
Councillor McInnes Ward: Meadows/Morningside Party: Conservative Group
Councillor McIvor Ward: Inverleith Party: Scottish National Party
Councillor Mowat Ward: City Centre Party: Conservative Group
Councillor Peacock Ward: Craigentinny/Duddingston Party: Liberal Democrat Group
Councillor Perry Ward: Southside/Newington Party: Labour Group
Councillor Tymkewycz Ward: Craigentinny/Duddingston Party: Scottish National Party
Councillor Wilson Ward: Sighthill/Gorgie Party: Labour Group
Councillor Cardownie (ex officio) Ward: Forth Party: Scottish National Party
Councillor Dawe (ex officio) Ward: Drum Brae/Gyle Party: Liberal Democrat Group
All emails -
gordon.f.mackenzie@edinburgh.gov.uk, robert.aldridge@edinburgh.gov.uk, eric.barry@edinburgh.gov.uk, tom.buchanan@edinburgh.gov.uk, steve.burgess@edinburgh.gov.uk, charles.dundas@edinburgh.gov.uk, nick.elliott-cannon@edinburgh.gov.uk, stephen.hawkins@edinburgh.gov.uk, lesley.hinds@edinburgh.gov.uk, allan.jackson@edinburgh.gov.uk, mark.mcinnes@edinburgh.gov.uk, stuart.mcivor@edinburgh.gov.uk, joanna.mowat@edinburgh.gov.uk, gary.peacock@edinburgh.gov.uk, ian.perry@edinburgh.gov.uk, stefan.tymkewycz@edinburgh.gov.uk, donald.wilson@edinburgh.gov.uk, steve.cardownie@edinburgh.gov.uk, jenny.dawe@edinburgh.gov.uk
Incidentally there are only 3 women out of 19...
Whole council 15 out of 57
"A blanket 20mph limit in Cambridge’s residential areas is a step closer to becoming reality after city councillors unanimously backed a new speed study."
"We know this is not going to be an overnight plan and we do not have unlimited resources to force vehicles to abide by speed limits.
“But residents are passionate about it and the expansion of a 20mph zone could lead to a major change in culture across the city.
“The boundaries need to be broader rather than idiosyncratic – Cambridge could be like Portsmouth, where the whole city in 20mph."
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Move-to-make-20mph-speed-limit-city-wide-22072011.htm
Thanks a lot for the email addresses. I've emailed councillors to ask for the maximum 20mph zone.
"Thanks a lot for the email addresses"
Well if it encourages anyone...
Hint hint - today or tomorrow.
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