Thanks Smudge.
Think I'll award that the Star Post of the Day Award.
Hard to imagine anyone will beat it for concise coherent sense.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Cyclepath etiquette
(63 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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My bell strategy is much like Smudge's. When I'm approaching a walker from behind, I know how much space I'll need to pass and what sort of speed, taking into account any path users ahead of me, but when I'm the one walking, every bicycle comes as a bit of a surprise.
I think pedestrians should be required by law to have rear-view mirrors.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I think pedestrians should be required by law to have rear-view mirrors."
And wear hi-viz jackets.
And keep to the right.
Posted 14 years ago # -
One of the perennial problems of passing slower moving traffic is that often you know it will be OK to pass provided they don't swerve, and that sounding a horn/bell may cause an adjustment of course that ends up blocking the way past. I think this is why many riders prefer to pass silently if there's enough room, rather than stopping & fussing over each interaction?
Strangely cyclists are recommended to sound off at pedestrians, but drivers are not advised to sound their horns when passing (pedestrians or cyclists) on a narrow road. In fact, you could end up being fined for doing so in a built-up area.
But as a pedestrian I enjoy being pinged at by cyclists just as much as I enjoy being beeped at by motorists, which is to say, not very much. Quite when health & safety moved away from just saying "excuse me" is anyone's guess?
Posted 14 years ago # -
For anyone that's interested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_HPosted 14 years ago # -
Love the photo!
Pure chaos.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Where I grew up drivers thought it was good manners to beep at cyclists and joggers when passing. Used to drive my Dad crazy.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Used to drive my Dad crazy"
Assume you mean he was a cyclist (or person with bicycle)?
Posted 14 years ago # -
And jogger - back at the start of the jogging/marathon trend.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Hmmm
after the lovely weather on Saturday and a cycle to the Ratho climbnig centre I can say I am in the camp that gets irritated by cyclists when I am walking
imho Tings are better than an "excuse me" for one reason, an excuse me can come from pedestrians or joggers too, knowing that you are about to be passed at speed is a good thing, saves shock and surprise
I have computer on my bike and found anything slower than 13mph was too slow for staying upright with the bairn in the bike seat, 6mph is easy enough approaching lights etc slowly... but gawd it would increase the commute time to work...Posted 14 years ago # -
"I can say I am in the camp that gets irritated by cyclists when I am walking"
all cyclists or silent/fast ones?
Posted 14 years ago # -
yeah OK, just the silent ones
Posted 14 years ago # -
This PDF on Waterscape suggests that the boat speed limit is 4mph.
But it also states:
"This document is for the general guidance of waterway users, and should not be treated as Navigation Rules or Bye-laws. General or local instructions published by BW, and directions given by BW staff, should be followed."I have cycled the towpath out of Edinburgh before 6am. You can make *very* good time at that hour of the day. Need to keep an eye out for ducks/swans, etc. though.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I think pedestrians should be required by law to have rear-view mirrors.
And wear hi-viz jackets.
And keep to the right. "
And wear helmets??
If you are riding the canal tow path before the dog walkers are out, keep an eye out for otters, they are active until the dogs appear.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Posted 14 years ago #
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@SRD - Out of the way, I'm not stopping. Isn't that what the cyclist who killed the girl said? He was fined £3000.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Thanks Gembo. I'd somehow missed that one. Sigh.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I used to commute via the canal path when I worked at Chesser House. My main gripes were dogs on long leads or no leads, pedestrians walking on the left, pedestrians not checking that nothing was behind them before changing course, pedestrians with their mp3 players so loud they couldn't hear anything, pedestrians wearing dark clothes along the unlit stretches at night (obviously not in the Tufty Club), groups of pedestrians spread out right across the path, unlit cyclists in the dark, and inconsiderate cyclists going too fast for the conditions and not using their bells under the bridges.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I never seem to have a problem with pedestrians failing to hear me approach...
Posted 14 years ago # -
I have said before that the bell ting should be followed by a vocal call indicating to the person yu are passing them on the left/right (smile, have a nice day then optional). Research conducted by ecological psychologists at Uni. of Surrey.
I am against headphones. I know some folks go with one ear in and one out. I require all my senses working over time trying to tell the difference between reason and rhyme on the mean streets of Edinburgh
Posted 14 years ago # -
@SRD - Out of the way, I'm not stopping. Isn't that what the cyclist who killed the girl said? He was fined £3000.
Actually to be fair, that bit is an urban myth.
I remember this case being discussed at length at the time and it transpired that none of the witnesses in the trial suggested he said that, it was an expression used by the prosecution summing up and siezed on by the press.
People also assume because a pedestrian died that the cyclist was on the pavement. The police were quoted as saying they "think Rhiannon was probably a few inches, or a foot, in to the road" as part of a group of kids when she was struck.
While I don't think that people walking in the road deserve to be run down by any means (!), when you look at the accepted facts of the case (a group of teenagers who were drinking are walking in the road, when one is hit and later dies) it paints a much less bleak picture than the one the media frenzy might have you believe.
In fact, I hazard that if the cyclist had been in his car that night, with the same results, he might well have escaped prosecution at all.
So much speculation - I used to switch off my headcam for bits like cycling through the park or on the cyclepath, because the chance of a serious accident is so much lower. Following this case I keep it on, just in case I end up killing a drunk teen who jumps in front of the bike, and it ends up painted like that!
Posted 14 years ago # -
@cb - yep 6am run from Harrison Park to the Gyle was always a breath of fresh air (until reaching the gyle and the choking nausiating stench of the chicken farm across the bypass when the wind blew it in... boak
my wife cycled to work at Ratho yesterday and on way back passed a group of 8 or more old ladies out walking two abreast, she tinged twice and slowed down, the ladies at the back heard and passed it on but apparently the lady at the front needs a hearing aid as she tutted loudly and proceeded to say "And look, there's another one who does't use her bell"
Also, last night on my way home from swimming 4km at Ainslie Park at Granton a couple of women were walking towards me with a small yappy dog off the leash which I kept a close eye on, as I was conentrating on it another yappy dog I hadn't seen behind them came lolloping into my path so I had to stop suddenly. Woman said "You've got a bell"... I had to reply "I was approaching you from the front, you could see me, and you have leads"... she shouted some abuse as I left..
Posted 14 years ago # -
Why would you not use a bell from the front?
To many, the importance of the bell rule is hierarchical (the cyclist requesting from their superior permission to pass) not functional. Just because they can see you, doesn't mean you get to treat with them as equals.
Get tinging!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Sorry if I'm getting argumentative, but unless there are two 'dave's' on here I don't understand how/why you 'ping' when meeting people head-on, but you don't signal when turning left???!! am I missing something?
Posted 14 years ago # -
I was explaining why people will object, not that I actually think you should oblige them.
I don't have a bell/horn, as I find them obnoxious (just like a driver hooting their horn every time they see a cyclist). I don't think it's necessary when millions of years of evolution have equipped me with a voice box.
Although, there is a great video on YouTube somewhere of a pedestrian who uses a bike bell to get past people (handy on Princes St?)
Posted 14 years ago # -
pinging pedestrians now?
where is that video Dave?
I think it would be a quick way to sustain a swift kicking on Princes St...Posted 14 years ago # -
I can't get Youtube at work, but it was a Japanese video. Apparently bike bells are big in Japan in just the way they're not in the UK, and people are so conditioned to moving aside for an aggressive "ringer" (ringee?) that it worked even in a supermarket!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Supermarket? Wow - I think in my local that would earn you a trolley in the kidneys...
Posted 14 years ago # -
this links to the invisibility thread
It is essential to ting/ding or ping (but not to ming). Or when bell broken callout ding ding.
Even then some of the population cannot clock you.
Never assume just coz someone has looked you straight in the eye that they have seen you
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Never assume just coz someone has looked you straight in the eye that they have seen you"
Sadly true
Sometimes when I'm not sure if I've been seen, I turn my head 'noticeably' away in the hope that a) movement is noticed b) driver thinks I might not have seen them.
Writing this makes it sound perverse, but I 'believe' there are all sorts of 'sixth sense' and unrealised signals involved in keeping out of trouble - or just call it experience.
Obviously if I'm doing the 'look away trick' I still know I can stop if car (usually planning to turn in front of me) really hasn't seen me!
Posted 14 years ago #
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