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A £3.15 million fund to help install a Scotland-wide network of full-sized 3G pitches for youth football and rugby development has been announced by First Minister Alex Salmond.
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Sport
More money for footballs...
(28 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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Over the past twelve years, local authorities and the Scottish Government – through sportscotland – have invested more than £150 million pounds in football and rugby facilities
And we're still rubbish. Good money after bad?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I suppose we could all just leave our jobs and go and live in Copenhagen instead.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"And we're still rubbish"
Had that Argie Ally on my telly tonight.
Posted 11 years ago # -
'And we're still rubbish'
Shurely shome mishtake.
We just gubbed the 4th best team in the world 1-0 in an entirely meaningless fixture.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Scotland could move back into world's top 50 following Croatia win
That's all right then.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Over the past twelve years, local authorities and the Scottish Government – through sportscotland – have invested more than £150 million pounds in football and rugby facilitiesAnd we're still rubbish. Good money after bad?
Not at all. A pound spent elsewhere to cycling isnt a pound wasted.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Frankly I don't see what the problem is here. 2/3 of the money is from 'confiscated' proceeds of crime (in this case oil company corruption!) so it's not really taking much away from other sports.
The travails of the Scottish national team are as much to do with management as anything...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I think 'point' (however unfocused - I started thread) is that football gets (more) money.
Presumably (partly at least) it is because soccer/rugby are more established/better connected/better at form filling than (for instance) cycling.
Issues of grassroots/elite are more complex.
I have no idea of links (evidenced or anecdotal) between 'local' facilities and the professional game.
In Edinburgh there are plans to spend £1.2m on cycle sport at Hunters Hall (with an expectation of 'elite' usage). Meanwhile Cyclone is a local facility built for about £5k (+ many volunteer hours).
Posted 11 years ago # -
For the record, I think spending money on things that might get kids doing activities and exercising is a good thing, however if the record is £150 million over 12 years, there surely are some other sports / pastimes (that aren't football or rugby) that could have benefited first. We appear to be in a situation where councils have to close down things like swimming pools and sports centres due to budget constraints and/or lack of political will to make cuts elsewhere.
Perhaps there's another £3m of proceeds of crime funds that could go to those causes?
Muses... if Edinburgh ever properly enforced its "bus" lanes you could have money to open Leith Waterworld open again in a few months. Port Edgar is being closes soon also.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but are we really a nation that's desperately short on football facilities? Perhaps I'm just bitter with the game because I did 13 years of Scottish state education where the only "sport" on offer was football and only if you were any good at it. Which, tragically, I wasn't.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Points duly noted and digested.
On the swimming pools, there's a policy disconnect there which is problematic. I'm sad about Waterworld closing. Unfortunately it was seen as a 'leisure' pool (and therefore dispensable); Commonwealth Pool was for 'sport' and refurbished at considerable expense...
On grassroots/elite football, apparently scouts from Edinburgh clubs do visit local junior teams. My son trains with/plays for Leith Athletic and I have heard from other parents about boys* who've been spotted and subsequently 'signed' to Hibs juniors. I imagine there's similar stuff going on with teams like Sparta, and so on.
Route into elite cycling seems more similar to athletics: joining local cycling club, competing, honing a particular discipline, eventually the best selected for regional, national, then international events?
* - there are some girls too, but it is mainly boys.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Unfortunately it was seen as a 'leisure' pool (and therefore dispensable); Commonwealth Pool was for 'sport' and refurbished at considerable expense..."
Indeed.
Think money might even have come from Glasgow.
CEC spending on sport/leisure not great - and how it is allocated is perhaps questionable.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@kaputnik, I was never much good at football at school either (preferred rugby and cricket, but wasn't great at either of those either...).
Posted 11 years ago # -
There does seem to be a prevailing attitude that competitive sport is good and requires money but non-competitive sport/exercise is unimportant. Perhaps because "competitive" people tend to try harder to influence their chosen discipline? (Thinking aloud without thinking it through!)
"British Cycling" recently pushed out a survey which I felt obliged to complain about in their comments box, they had a question along the lines of "what sort of cyclist are you?" And a list of options including road, track, various mtb disciplines, (though not audax!) and one solitary non "sports" option, "not a committed cyclist"
It highlighted one of the main failings I see in the organisation - sport is great, oh yeah and I *suppose* you could ride for transport if you had to...Posted 11 years ago # -
"There does seem to be a prevailing attitude that competitive sport is good and requires money but non-competitive sport/exercise is unimportant."
It may be 'unintentional' but I think it may well be true in practice.
"Perhaps because "competitive" people tend to try harder to influence their chosen discipline?"
Again, probably true - hard to be passionate about exercise... 'We' only 'care' about 'transport' - and that's a 'different budget'.
"(Thinking aloud without thinking it through!)"
Not always a bad thing...
"and one solitary non "sports" option, "not a committed cyclist" "
Missed that (was it a members' only survey?) - pretty bad/unthinking. Thought Chris Boardman was 'setting the tone' with BC.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Or maybe it's just that a LOT more kids play football and with better facilities they'll play more and therefore be more active. And maybe making the national side a world beater isn't the final intention nor a marker for if it's a success.
Far far easier to keep kids active doing something they're already doing than convert them to a new activity - but if they ARE active then that may filter into other activities. Yes, I'd rather this money went into keeping pools open - but this is a national initiative whereas the pools issue has been local council budgets, and if the money hasn't been spent on football and rugby there's no guarantee it would have been made available for things like pools (even less likely cycling infrastructure on roads - the disconnect there between sport and transport is even greater than sport and leisure).
Put it this way, go into a deprived area of Scotland with a bit of scrubland and a burgeoning health and obesity problem. Would developing a good park with football facilities, building a pool that people have to pay to use, or putting segregated cycle paths beside the roads, lead to more people being active?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I thought British Cycling IS primarily a sport cycling body? Certainly they're the ones who issue race licences. Bit like here Scottish Cycling is sport, Cycling Scotland is pretty much everything but more focus on leisure and utility?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Or maybe it's just that a LOT more kids play football and with better facilities they'll play more and therefore be more active."
Not convinced by the last bit of that.
Of course in the day when 'British' football had (mostly) UK born players - England imported a few from Scotland and NI - the 'talent' was 'developed' by kids kicking cans in car-free streets (allegedly).
"Put it this way, go into a deprived area of Scotland with a bit of scrubland and a burgeoning health and obesity problem. Would developing a good park with football facilities, building a pool that people have to pay to use, or putting segregated cycle paths beside the roads, lead to more people being active?"
Well...
Actually I don't think there is a shortage of good football facilities (grass cut, goal posts in place, lines marked).
Edinburgh quite good with 'proper' play equipment too (for younger children to be active).
Overall what is lacking (and this is partly why I am sceptical about the intended spend on bike racing facilities at Hunters Hall) is too main things -
1) Revenue spending money (Capital is 'always' available) - just look at run down Meadowbank - may stadium and velodrome plus closed Leith Waterworld.
2) Coaches/trainers - usually dedicated (largely unpaid) volunteers.
New/extra facilities (whether football is over provided for is a minor issue) that lead to existing ones being neglected or without enough people to teach/develop youngsters isn't really 'progress'.
Also not everyone likes team/organised 'sport'.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I have re-read the story
Seems to be about artificial pitches rather than grass - and can be used for refurbishment (which is Capital and presumably means there wasn't enough Revenue to keep them in good nick).
Also
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"This is a great opportunity for rugby and football clubs to come together at a local level to work with their local authority to ensure a transformation in playing and training facilities within their communities.
"Presumably other sports could organise themselves to get money too(?)
"This, in turn, will drive youngsters off the streets and off their couches and encourage them to engage and participate in rugby or football.."
"
Mmm, how?, why?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"but this is a national initiative whereas the pools issue has been local council budgets"
There's your problem right there.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"but this is a national initiative whereas the pools issue has been local council budgets"
There's your problem right there.
Yes, indeed. I'm sure Keith Broon is about to impress us all with a dramatic, revolutionary and forward-thinking cycle policy.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"British Cycling" recently pushed out a survey which I felt obliged to complain about in their comments box, they had a question along the lines of "what sort of cyclist are you?" And a list of options including road, track, various mtb disciplines, (though not audax!)
I bet they didn't have time-trialling either. That's pure BC politics as far as I can see. 'Someone else' responsible for governing audax and TT (AUK, CTT), therefore BC not interested. Of course, audax is 'not a race' (though the points ranking is pretty competitive!).
As for 'not a committed cyclist', that's just the racers looking down on 'ordinary' cyclists...
Posted 11 years ago # -
"'Someone else' responsible for governing audax and TT (AUK, CTT), therefore BC not interested"
Is chastising BC for that not like having a go at the SFA for not taking an interest in rugby? If they're not the governing body, and there is a different governing body, would they not be treading on the toes of that actual governing body if they were to make proclamations on something that wasn't in their area?
They are a 'sport' association, therefore their focus will be sport. I don't really see what the problem with that is - okay, the 'not a committed cyclist' choice is a little sneery, but maybe they wanted 'not a committed sport cyclist' but it was too long for the form.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Scottish Cycling: Business and Governance Review"
Posted 11 years ago # -
'm not saying BC is obliged to be interested in audax/TT or 'everyday' cycling. They have though, somehow become the governing body for all kinds of cycling except audax/TT: as well as road racing and track they govern mountain biking, cyclocross, sportives, etc. Don't forget they are the umbrella for 'Sky rides' too.
I'm unclear as to purpose of the survey Smudge referred to: presumably a membership survey? However to leave out certain cycling disciplines just because BC doesn't govern them seems silly from an information gathering point of view. Also given BC has a 'commuting' section of their web site, and is increasingly involved in public pronouncemets on 'cycling' in general, I'd have thought taking an interest in what members do with bikes beyond sport would be sensible too.
The football/rugby analogy is not quite right: it's more like British Athletics saying they're not interested in endurance sports (maybe they're not, I dunno...).
Posted 11 years ago # -
I suppose the attraction of field sports is that for supervision of kids/participants 1 adult can keep an eye on 22 or 30 kids with little worry of serious injury as opposed to taking the same number of kids out on bikes.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Here are the participation figures for England:
Sport England: Participation down by 200,000, says survey
Cycling as sport (?) similar levels to football - but both down on previous year.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The end of the Olympic legacy being felt then? That was quick!
Everyone getting all excited about sport for 6 months, then realising it's hard work and takes a lot of time. Also coaching, equipment, access to facilities, etc. often costs hard cash. Back in front of the telly/computer or down the pub?
Posted 11 years ago #
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