Excellent BMJ Article on casualty reductions in London due to the introduction of 20mph zones.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial
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Posted 9 years ago #
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Well, if it's elitist snobbery I'll just have to live with the ignominy of being an elitist snob.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Well, if it's elitist snobbery I'll just have to live with the ignominy of being an elitist snob."
Actually (arguably) the elitists are those with cars who 'refuse' to change their habits for the sake of others - perhaps including their own children and other relations.
So not to worry!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Summary from that BMJ article:
The introduction of 20 mph zones was associated with a 41.9% (95% confidence interval 36.0% to 47.8%) reduction in road casualties, after adjustment for underlying time trends. The percentage reduction was greatest in younger children and greater for the category of killed or seriously injured casualties than for minor injuries. There was no evidence of casualty migration to areas adjacent to 20 mph zones, where casualties also fell slightly by an average of 8.0% (4.4% to 11.5%).Who was it wanted stats? Someone on SRD's blog? Those good enough?
Posted 9 years ago # -
nope. they weren't the stats he wanted.
Ruggtomcat found that article and cited it at him yesterday to no effect.
my favourite stat from that article is actually that cyclists have the least to gain from 20mph zones, and child pedestrians the most.
Posted 9 years ago # -
nope. they weren't the stats he wanted.
I am guessing he wants stats that tell him he can drive as fast as he likes. Don't think he is going to get them!
Posted 9 years ago # -
my latest cri de couer (doubtless iwrats will be along to correct my french)
http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/why-evening-news-is-wrong.html
Posted 9 years ago # -
That's you off their Christmas card list.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@SRD
That graphic is chilling. Real people reduced to fat dots on a map.
(Hang the French and their tricksy diphthongs.)
Posted 9 years ago # -
the map and article are both courtesy of arobcomp of this parish. didn't want to implicate him in my anti-EEN crusade given he's an upstanding member of the business community and all that
Posted 9 years ago # -
I suspect Min is right about your nemesis.
There are stats (with empirical backing) stating that with 20mph zones there are: fewer deaths and injuries; less congestion; lower pollution levels; increased fuel economy; a perception of a safer environment leading to more spending in the area...
And yet still the important stat is how many injuries and deaths there are between 20 and 30mph. Can someone invent a paper which gives a figure, any figure, just to see what he does with it? I'm genuinely intrigued.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"And yet still the important stat is how many injuries and deaths there are between 20 and 30mph"
Let's imagine there are none. (Seems very unlikely!)
That might make his narrow case.
BUT
It wouldn't negate all the things 'we' care about - nicer places to live, easier to cross roads 'safely' etc.
Fortunately "surveys show" that those are things *most* people want.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@SRD: I've been following your tweets and reading your excellent blogposts on this over the last few days (including today). Thanks very much for this - your patience and eloquence in the face of anger and, frankly, idiocy, is admirable. If we ever meet I need to buy you a beer.
Posted 9 years ago # -
She only does it for beer.
.
.
.
.
(Not)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Most kind of you stickman. I'm sure beer can be arranged....
:)
Posted 9 years ago # -
One thing about the 'say no to 20mph' Facebook page is that the 'likes' could have been generated from all over the world.
These people non-local to Edinburgh may just have skim read the page and thought it sounds good, without giving it real consideration, or just 'liked' it because their friend shared it.
At least with the council consultation, the 1000s of responses were from local people, with a real interest in the local area.
I wonder if it's possible to access the data about the origin of the 'likes' through the FB API??
Posted 9 years ago # -
FB will likely let you track any Like click you just have to pretend to be from the eff bee eye
I am staying away as my system can't take any more blood boilding in 2015Posted 9 years ago # -
One of my friends, a non-cyclist, posted on there as well about the pedestrians not being the ones to blame there, and started getting DMs from one of the more vocal (and less grammatically correct) 'likers'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Interesting tweet from Lesley Hinds, in response to mention of Transport committee:
LAHinds: @AndrewDBurns @SRDorman @20splentyforus @adamrmcvey even the ones who voted against now coming back to get more roads in their ward 20mph!!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Well their opposition wasn't (they said) against the idea of 20mph, just some of the details.
They looked a bit sheepish - and so they should have.
The Greens had put up an amendment that LH accepted, the Tories had another which wasn't accepted, so I suppose logic/process meant they had to oppose.
So those against have lost some 'allies' they might have imagined would be supportive.
Posted 9 years ago # -
My bold
"
Speed limits are usually set to attempt to cap road traffic speed; there are several reasons for wanting to do this. It is often done with an intention to improve road traffic safety and reduce the number of road traffic casualties from traffic collisions. In their World report on road traffic injury prevention report, the World Health Organization (WHO) identify speed control as one of various interventions likely to contribute to a reduction in road casualties. (The WHO estimated that some 1.2 million people were killed and 50 million injured on the roads around the world in 2004.)[n 1] Speed limits may also be set in an attempt to reduce the environmental impact of road traffic (vehicle noise, vibration, emissions) and to satisfy local community wishes for streets usable by people out of cars. Some cities have reduced limits to as little as 30 km/h (19 mph) for both safety and efficiency reasons.[10]
In situations where the natural road speed is considered too high by governments, notably on urban areas where speed limits below 50 km/h (31 mph) are used then traffic calming is often also used. For some classes of vehicle, speed limiters may be mandated to enforce compliance.
Since their introduction, speed limits have been opposed by some motoring advocacy groups.
"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit
(30 kilometers per hour is 18.641 miles per hour)
Posted 9 years ago # -
1.2 million people were killed... ...on the roads around the world in 2004
That's 8* jumbo jet crashes every day!
Yes, eight!
*From 8 x 365 days x 400 passensgers = 1,168,000
Posted 9 years ago # -
I don't think some have quite cottoned on... "Please don't send this yet. I am against the 20 mph limit but you cannot sign this off on behalf of the people of Edinburgh, and you should not use language like "Dictator Hinds" because you start to lose the argument. I understand the feelings and that the Council are open to constructive argument, and we should be putting positive reasons forward as to why decision this isn't practicable, but not in this type of tone. If you would like help with the draft, I would be happy to help!"
It's interesting as well that someone appears to genuinely think (well, 'think' might be stretching it) that the 20mph limit is there to increase pollution deliberately, thereby meaning the council can then impose a congestion charge. Someone's been watching too many scandi-noir shows (and having someone else read out the subtitles aloud)...
Posted 9 years ago # -
@SRD couldn't possibly be anyone on here, 'we' are the acceptable face of cycle campaigning.
Must be those 5th columners at Spokes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
On second thoughts it must be those PoPsters.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Lots of parallel wee rubber wires across a70 at chesser/slateford now, think recording speeds.? Or maybe just numbers ?
Posted 9 years ago # -
One wee rubber pipe on Lothiumroad by the Caledomium this evening.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@gembo same on Corstorphine road & Glasgow. My guess is that they are to capture usage of bus lanes for the trial they are about to carry out.
Posted 9 years ago #
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