One positive step that folk in Edinburgh and the Lothians could take is to join Spokes, or at least support some of the local campaigning work that Spokes takes on round the year.
As the saying goes, in the end all politics is local.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
PoP 2014 - Thoughts?
(129 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Definitely a success d'estime
Best so far
Posted 10 years ago # -
" just relieved it's over and another (I think?) success..."
NO-ONE could doubt the last bit!!
Next year numbers won't matter.
Perhaps more of a celebration (Party on Parliament was mentioned by at least one speaker yesterday) than a protest?
Perhaps more 'mass' starting points (Leith Links?) riding directly to Holyrood?
Perhaps get Holyrood Park shut including top road - a day of cycling, fun, picnicking and a bit of meet/listen to the politicians?
May 2nd?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Perhaps more 'mass' starting points (Leith Links?) riding directly to Holyrood?
Perhaps get Holyrood Park shut including top road - a day of cycling, fun, picnicking and a bit of meet/listen to the politicians?
Yes, both good ideas.
A lot more organising required to make them happen though.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"A lot more organising required to make them happen though."
Well I know a LOT of effort/meetings went into getting PoP (back) on Saturday this year.
I would hope that with the way it was on the day, and the very obvious political support, that next year's conversation will be just about the date!
Other starting point(s) mean less concern about 'too many people'.
The bigger problem might be 'shutting the Park'.
It really is time it was permanently shut to through traffic - but that will take time!
There have been various attempts (including people on here).
Perhaps 'we' can work on that as a campaign that would benefit 'everyone' but not take up 'PoP organising time/people'(?)
Posted 10 years ago # -
The bigger problem might be 'shutting the Park'.
It really is time it was permanently shut to through traffic - but that will take time!
There have been various attempts (including people on here).
Perhaps 'we' can work on that as a campaign that would benefit 'everyone' but not take up 'PoP organising time/people'(?)
WC and myself tried to get backing for a Council petition, but while promoting it ran into some stiff opposition, sometimes from unexpected quarters.
Something like that would need broader support, which I am not convinced is there. It's amazing how reactionary otherwise reasonable folk get when you mention curtailing the "right" to drive anywhere!
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Something like that would need broader support, which I am not convinced is there."
Yes, just start with one day - a year away...
Posted 10 years ago # -
I live by the park and would love it to be closed to motor vehicles. It's so great on Sundays especially to see kids learning to ride a bike. As we know mostly it's not so much a park as an an inner city by pass! I've spoken to some park wardens a while ago who mentioned trying to close it more often.
Maybe we should try campaign for gradual changes. As a first step I'd like the parts that are shut on Sunday daytime to also be closed to motor traffic weekday evenings during the summer months, say from about 6:30pm (or maybe Saturday daytimes).
That won't inconvenience too many and should begin to show how good it could be...Posted 10 years ago # -
(or maybe Saturday daytimes)
Would have a positive impact, and perhaps easier to implement.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Change.org petition could be addressed to Historic Scotland, as 'keepers' of Holyrood Park?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Closing the park would certainly stop the ludicrous and downright dangerous driving I mentioned in the rubbish driving thread. It's not a sensible through-route for motorists, and as a destination, it' easily enough reached on foot by most people. I don't see the point of driving within a town or city to go somewhere for a walk. Use public transport or... and here's a radical idea (Park pun intended)... walk!
And to cope with complaints of access for the less able-bodied, perhaps a nominal fee for an small electric vehicle shuttle service which could be arranged with the Park Ranger Service. It would give way to cyclists at all times, only overtaking if cyclists pulled over into lay-bys (which they would be requested to do via signs at the bottom of the climb and at each lay-by. Obviously, the vehicle would need to be funded initially, but it could be bought the next time a Park vehicle needs replacing, and be multi-purpose.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Links to threads from the last attempt, to petition CEC. Have since realised it ought to be HS we petition, and need slightly different wording.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Getting Holyrood Park shut (more)"
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago # -
The politicians' speeches suggested that more of them at least understood the issues better (more mentions of infrastructure), but I can't help wondering about the perversity of them joining a protest against their own failure to take action ;o)
Having the minister for transport, who has done very little for our cause, certainly not for the transformational change POP is demanding, addressing us was a little odd. But I suppose its good for him to look as if he's listening (and maybe even listen!).
On the whole, a great day, and I was proud to be part of the ride. As said by others, the minute's silence was lost near the back and the PA system could have been better - but that's real nitpicking on a grassroots protest on such a big scale. When you constantly seem to be feeling like a minority, it's really nice to see that you're not alone - far from it in fact.
Posted 10 years ago # -
If you want an idea of what Keith Brown was thinking, just study his expression when listening to the kids' speeches - Dan B especially.
Biggest comment I've sensed is perhaps a tidying up of the odd bits that were a bit too ragged (sound systems & managing the silence etc) but doing this in a slightly slicker way without going corporate, commercial and glossy. If someone does 'sponsor' anything it cannot be a sell out to a brand.
It might have been a benefit to have more Police escorts for feeder rides Examples might be
an assembly point at Newbridge, to bring the riders together as a group along the A8, with the benefits of group riding (especially in to the face of Saturday's Easterly 'breeze'). Knowing my approximate speed I was passed by a chain gang who left Glasgow 25 minutes after me, but lost my fellow Brompton user on the way in to town.
key junction management - the size of some feeder rides
such as a group of 2-300 entering Glasgow Road from Haymarket Terrace, most with the traffic signals, but the stragglers got a bit of criticism for blocking the start from the Glasgow Road green signal.Getting more of the feeder rides to work as compact, and social entities, which in turn show even more dramatically just how many folk are heading in to POP from the North, West, and South.
The other frustration was actually getting to see people I know who I knew were there, and missing many of them and having rendezvous points for interest groups - people from the North, South and West of Scotland, Brompton users, child trailer users, kids on balance bikes etc. Perhaps pop-up flagpoles that will clear away just as quickly.
Don't have a big event hanging around on Liz's lawn, what POP subtly but dramatically shows is how 5000+ people can arrive and assemble, and as swiftly and silently vanish from the centre of Edinburgh in a way you would never achieve with cars or even by bus.
It would be very useful to see what impact the event had on the many cafes, bars and coffee shops as almost every place I went past on the way home had a stack of bikes outside, proof if nothing else that encouraging cycling gives local business a boost - so in some ways don't have the hassle of organising catering, encourage folk to use local places to stop off for refreshments, and if folk have come in from afar looking at how they might be accommodated the night before or after, and perhaps a Ceilidh - separate venue and paid entry - to close the day.
The best move outside POP would be to have that Royal Mile Closure more often - starting with say once per month?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted some photos mainly of the start and finish here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/revstar/
Posted 10 years ago # -
We don't really do the feeder rides, other than to publicise them - were there really groups 2-300 strong? Any idea where they were coming from?
We had an informal Dumfries & Galloway meet up & photo call with Claudia Beamish after the speeches(which also meant a chance to chat and catch up with people). However that was only really possible because I was standing in a prominent position and could grab key people and make arrangements as they passed me. Trying to work out in advance where to meet in a crowd like that would be almost impossible, so having regional meetup points would definitely help (and could also be used to position MSPs for lobbying purposes)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Another fabulous event, the best so far I would argue.
I don't think you can underestimate the effect of a mass demonstration on politicians, used to seeing demonstrations in the tens or low hundreds at Holyrood. The fact this is the third one and numbers remain high is great. That the Minister felt it important enough to arrange some extra cycle funding to be announced the day before is significant, given how tight budgets are at the moment. Maintaining pressure is important, it would have been easy to have a year-off, given the euro elections and referendum. The media reaction has been good - particularly given competing stories (especially the near collapse of various football clubs).
I think the problem with the minute's silence could be sorted by a marshall wandering up the line about five minutes before it starts, using the megaphone to let people know what is happening and when. The whistles for the start are a good idea, but probably need to be accompanied by a visual signal - marshalls could use the flags used for controlling the traffic as well as whistles. I think the stretched out nature of the start will always make this a bit tricky.
Problems with the PA are almost inevitable, unless you have some festival sized PA system. If people were keen to hear then they could move to positions where this was possible.
Personally, I'm against stalls, toilets etc. It is a demo and there is already a Festival of Cycling. All these things require cash and lots of extra organisation - more than is reasonable to expect of a group of volunteers working with almost no money.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Personally, I'm against stalls, toilets etc. It is a demo and there is already a Festival of Cycling.
This was why I was slightly annoyed by people 'from' Critical Mass, complete with newfangled ghettoblasters strapped to their bikes. POP isn't that kind of combative event, it's a protest with manners, and even if regular attendance means it will tend towards a day out, its manifesto is clear and ensures it's a serious-but-fun day out. But I'm also glad they came along, because every extra person who was there helped lend weight to the message.
I too wouldn't like to see POP commercialised. It's organised by the people for the people; it's a call to arms, and makes its point straightaway where it matters.
I also noticed the way that four or five thousand people just seemed to melt away afterwards. Perhaps the scale of bicycles vs available road capacity is akin to the NEC emptying itself onto the A45/M42.
Having led group rides before, and helped out with larger ones, any sort of feeder ride that swells in numbers to 50, to 100, or even more, quickly becomes its own event which starts to require a level of organisation with several key personnel on hand to ensure safe passage, especially when the group is not wholly made up of experienced, traffic jamming-type cyclists. The feeder ride I was on (featuring the multicoloured Gandalf, I believe) wasn't more than 15 or 20 but we had to marshall ourselves across roundabouts, and the group split at some junctions because for some of the group riding on roads, being near scary vehicles, and going at more than 8mph was a very big deal. One of the young ones took fright not one minute after leaving the safe confines of the park, and burst into tears. That is the sort of person POP's ambitions are aimed at.
I was disappointed that even I forgot about the one minute's silence until it was two minutes past. Perhaps marshalls could syncronise watches beforehand, and have green and red flags plus whistles? I'm thinking of the train guards and station staff who in an instant can communicate the departure of a train.
And I enjoyed myself of course. It feels like a treat to ride in town on main roads and not worry a jot about vehicles. I wish it could always be like that.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The Harrison Park feeder ride seems to have been a bit special then, because we did have a Police escort. Is this simply because I asked for one, I wonder?
Anyway, that made it a totally awesome ride because we (and, according to Mr SRD there were 98 of us) really did take over the road for the short time we were on it. It felt completely safe, even with the littlest children present, because we knew that at the back of our convoy of 100 bikes there was one ridden by a chap with 'Police' on the back of his jacket, and that really does make all the difference.
So, my vote would be for formalising the feeder rides a bit more and seeing if it would be possible to have more with Police escorts (where sensible).
This picture from chdot shows the right way to get 100 bikes across the King's Theatre junction.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago #
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Posted 10 years ago # -
@chdot - thank you, that's the one I had in mind when I was writing: I knew it existed but couldn't find it again in your (ever-growing) list of PoP pictures.
For those who like spotting CCE people, the picture also shows my back and Mr SRD's back.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@ Morningsider
+1
Posted 10 years ago # -
@ Morningsider
"That the Minister felt it important enough to arrange some extra cycle funding to be announced the day before is significant"
Some people think this wasn't 'new money'.
Minister said it was from several Ministers' budgets, so presumably new and a good precedent(?)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Suggestion that some of the money for education rather than transport. If it came from the education budget this will be schools. I assume that will be bikeability. Maybe a FOI to find out how many schools are doing bikeability and how many are doing it in school time/ after school?
I could be way off, but this could be money made available but which doesn't get used?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I could be way off, but this could be money made available but which doesn't get used?"
I suppose that is theoretically possible - but would (presumably) be embarrassing for Cycling Scotland.
I HOPE the money means a significant change of policy by the SG.
For years CS has spouted the SG line that 'Bikeability is delivered by volunteers'.
In the past this mostly meant 'parent volunteers' who were increasingly hard to find - and were (and therefore the training) of variable quality.
Since then in Edinburgh (and presumably other places) schools have been training staff (not just teachers) to deliver Bikeability. All schools are meant to take part, but not all are.
For the last couple of years CS has been giving SG money to LAs to pay for "mentors" who were basically there to check that these new trainers were doing their new job 'adequately' - which wasn't always the case. But the mentors weren't allowed to lead or help with Bikeability sessions...
There now might/should be enough money to pay experienced trainers to deliver.
All depends on the details.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Thoughts? - I agree with previous comments that I thought this was the best POP so far.
I had a previous engagement in Juniper Green that morning, so I headed to the Meadows along route 75. This meant I was too late for the Police escort, so a family with young children and I had a hairy few seconds trying to turn right at the Kings Theatre whilst being overtaken by a white van, with another white van coming towards us.
It was good that there were more streets closed to traffic. There was a nice relaxed atmosphere along the Royal Mile. I'm sure even the pedestrians enjoyed the break from the usual traffic jams there.
The worst part of the day was the journey home. I decided to see if I could spot a tram, so I headed along Princes Street. But the buses, taxis, traffic lights and random restriction signs made this difficult and stressful. However I arrived at Haymarket and got my train back to Livingston without incident. I was the only cyclist on that train, by the way.
Next year, I might try and join a feeder ride like my family and I did the first year. It made for more of a fun day out.
Keep up the good work.
Hobgoblin
Posted 10 years ago # -
@arellcat
"featuring the multicoloured Gandalf, I believe"
I'm not sure that I've been to a free event in Edinburgh since 1990 that didn't feature that particular gentleman in some capacity.
Posted 10 years ago #
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