CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

And now? (Not the White Paper thread)

(693 posts)

No tags yet.


123…24

  1. SRD
    Moderator

    "It’s been an exciting few months in Scotland, in the lead up to the independence referendum. Regardless of which side we were on, we all had one uniting cry – that we want the best possible country for us all. We have long believed that we all should “work as if you were in the early days of a better nation” and it’s as true now as ever before.

    We mustn’t rest now! Transportation is a power we already have control over here in Scotland and now is the time for us to raise our voices and be heard!"

    http://pedalonparliament.org/a-better-nation/

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. steveo
    Member

    I agree fully with this, but unfortunately we've got a mirror image of the problem because 45% of people are so dissatisfied with the country that they actually voted to destroy it.

    Indeed. Ultimately the SNP overplayed their hand, there was only ever a small chance we'd get independence made even smaller with the White Paper but AS pushed on any way bringing about this situation. But then patience has never been a virtue in politics.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. Baldcyclist
    Member

    David Cameron making some big promises, if he delivers on those that means a Tory govt at next general election.

    He seems to be playing a blinder in this, placate the Scots with more power, give the rest of the country powers too. Most of the opposition will come from Labour, as they don't want an 'English' parliament.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    "For me, it was easy to rub along ignoring the nasty bits of the UK until I was forced to really think about it. And there's no easy way back now."

    Thank you Dave for saying this.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    I'm more devastated about the result than I thought possible even yesterday. It's a bit like the Miner's Strike in 1984: this was the equivalent for Scotland.

    Whatever the flaws of the Yes campaign or the visions for independence, what we have now lost is a progressive force for change that emerged from the Yes movement. It was just a brief moment, and now it has gone.

    Now we are back to the systems of privilege and patronage from before. I mean, a Peer is responsible for reforming the democratic system of governance! That is a clear sign of how things will be from now on.

    I cannot see any positive vision for change in the future coming from the No camp. Like it or not, the vote was not for change. Those that did vote No hoping for a new devolution settlement had better engage with the system, and quick, if they want it to happen. Hold your party leaders to account. Ours have already spoken and given detailed plans. What are yours?

    If there is anything worthwhile to emerge from whatever deal is cobbled together between the unionist parties, then it will be supported by those who lost the referendum. We shall see.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. DaveC
    Member

    "It's a bit like the Miner's Strike in 1984: this was the equivalent for Scotland."

    I lived through the strike, as my dad was a miner. He was a contract miner, to a private company. He did not get strike pay and was prohibited from working by his contract being suspended for the duration. He did not get unemployment pay either. Now unless you are the son of a miner or were a miner during the strike, I am not going to take any advice from you on the subject.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    @DaveC, my uncle was a miner, my grandfather too. So I know all about it thanks.

    I still remember how it felt when the strike was defeated, and that same feeling is back. Big time.

    Once the Old Etonians have finished with Scotland, maybe more folk will know what I'm talking about. Until then, peace be with you.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. steveo
    Member

    What was the Mandela quote being banded around... 'May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.'

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. SRD
    Moderator

    "Now unless you are the son of a miner or were a miner during the strike, I am not going to take any advice from you on the subject."

    I am in the middle of editing a response to a piece which calls my academic work (and that of other colleagues) into question on the basis of 'who we are' rather than 'what we know'. Position/personal history is not a basis for rejecting people's arguments. It may help us understand why people see things in certain ways, but it does not negate the legitimacy of their voice or opinion.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. algo
    Member

    Well said SRD.

    Here's a post from Patrick Harvie on the way forward…

    http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/blog/ours-was-a-campaign-of-hope-and-aspiration/

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. gembo
    Member

    It was a binary choice made the counting easier. The chap I observed was ultra quick.

    However I want a non-binary solution.

    I asked many good people on the yes side - What are you going to do if you lose? Several could not contemplate this. General principle in life of holding something back is maybe something some people might reflect on as a strategy? For example to put into plan B. Though I see that it was a once in a generation/lifetime opportunity for many.

    Maybe after the dust has settled people will be able to reflect that building a better society does not need separation from England.?

    I hope that all the energy and commitment people put in is not lost. The engagement of the whole of Scotland was a big plus from this two years of campaigning. it would be a pity to lose this.

    I can imagine people may feel demoralised and demotivated but politics has changed and people can easily get involved with party or non-party politics.

    Chapeau to all your efforts and chin up.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. tammytroot
    Member

    What a cracking result for the Conservative party! Even if a Labour govt gets elected to the UK parliament they will not be able to use their majority to enact legislation on matters which are "devolved".
    I think we just became a one party state.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    Why? Scottish Labour MP's barely matter there are so few.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. minus six
    Member

    "I'm sure I'll take you with pleasure!" the Queen said.

    "Twopence a week, and jam every other day."

    Alice couldn't help laughing, as she said, "I don't want you to hire me—and I don't care for jam."

    "It's very good jam," said the Queen.

    "Well, I don't want any to-day, at any rate."

    "You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said.

    "The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday — but never jam to-day."

    "It must come sometimes to "jam to-day,"' Alice objected.

    "No, it can't," said the Queen. "It's jam every other day: to-day isn't any other day, you know."

    "I don't understand you," said Alice. "It's dreadfully confusing!"

    "That's the effect of living backwards," the Queen said kindly: "it always makes one a little giddy at first."

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. tammytroot
    Member

    @steveo,
    Scottish MPs currently;
    Affiliation Members
    Labour Party 40
    Liberal Democrats 11
    Scottish National Party 6
    Conservative Party 1
    Independent 1
    Total 59

    If Labour party was to gain power would likely be more.
    If the proposal to debar Scottish MPs from voting on "English Matters" eg, NHS in England, then the above 40 would not be able to assist the government in votes affecting this matter.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. Morningsider
    Member

    Alex Salmond has announced that he will stand down as First Minister and SNP leader in November. He will continue as an MSP - not sure if he will stand again in 2016 or not.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    Wow looks like it was 55:45 about Alex salmond after all

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    i thought that was in the imperative not the (whatever we tense for reporting actual fact).

    Posted 9 years ago #

  19. steveo
    Member

    @tammytroot did you read the link? The number of Labour MP's in Scotland would only have made a difference to one Labour majority since the war.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  20. Min
    Member

    "Will Alex Salmond, having suffered such a defeat call an election? Or stand down?"

    No

    Yes

    Posted 9 years ago #

  21. gembo
    Member

    He is going, I respect him for that

    Posted 9 years ago #

  22. Min
    Member

    Yes, he has done the honourable thing. It is the only way to move on.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  23. Morningsider
    Member

    SRD - sorry for the poor grammar. It was a statement of fact. Post now edited.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  24. SRD
    Moderator

    @morningsider don't think it was poor - lacking references maybe, or i just read it out of context

    Posted 9 years ago #

  25. Instography
    Member

    Handpicking journalists for the press conference - Telegraph, Mail, Sun and broadcasters excluded.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    If Nicola Sturgeon is leader and Johann Lamont still in place, SNP and Tories will clean up.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  27. Nelly
    Member

    Insto, agreed. Especially as scot labour discredited in many eyes.

    Thought salmond would go.

    Interesting point re: Cameron phone call and "the vow".

    Posted 9 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    Patrick Harvie's response to Salmond's resignation: bit.ly/1r6hNUG

    Posted 9 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    Mark Ruskell ‏@markruskell
    RT @clickma: Who should be next SNP leader? Tesco, Standard Life, BP, Branson and RBS must tell us now. #indyref @BBCScotlandNews

    Posted 9 years ago #

  30. crowriver
    Member

    Scottish Greens ‏@scotgp
    To the hundreds and hundreds of people who've joined @scotgp today please bear with us in replying to your application. Unprecedented demand

    Posted 9 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

123…24

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin