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Audax discussion thread

(23 posts)

  1. fimm
    Member

    A thread for general discussions about Audax.
    "Newbie" questions welcome, & whatever else might come up.

    However this thread comes out of a couple of things I said on the thread about a programme about the 1300km Highlands and Western Isles Audax:

    "It was a shame there were no women - but in my (limited) experience that level of female participation is typical of Audax!

    I'd like to do some more Audaxing - but cycling while sleep-deprived worries me, so I don't see myself going further than 300km. I guess that's a whole different thread, though..."

    Two different subjects for discussion there - women in Audax and cycling while sleep deprived. I'm actually more interested in people's thoughts on the latter - my experience of both running and triathlon is that the further you go, the fewer women there are, and in Audax this is compounded by the fact that there are fewer women cycling any distances at all...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. amir
    Member

    I've seen higher proportions of females on sportive in general. At last Saturday's Audax there must have been 2 or 3 out of about 20.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. amir
    Member

    In terms of distance, it can be difficult to imagine going much further than your current best whatever your level. I am now pretty comfortable at 200km or even 300km, but 400km seems a real jump, perhaps because it's still in one go.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. paddyirish
    Member

    Only done one Audax 100km Crystal run out of Musselburgh in August and there were about 7 or 8 women out of 42, so that would be 15-20%.

    Certainly there seem to be a few PBP completers.

    I'd like to do a 200km and maybe a 300 in 2015 (aiming for Randonneur 1000), but seeing the guys in that shape suggests that I wouldn't want to go any further.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    One of the guys on the Adventure Show said it was more mental than physical - in the sense that the last miles/hours could be hard and the middle more of a pleasant cruise - whatever the overall distance.

    Most of those interviewed seem to have 'enjoyed' themselves - and weren't entirely looking forward to getting back to 'normal'.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. paddyirish
    Member

    They were a funny lot - but that just looked like self-abuse to me...

    Swedes were hilarious, maybe they were the honorary women as they got lost ;-)

    *gets hard hat and ducks for shelter *

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. Cyclops
    Member

    Having ridden a few longer audaxes sleep deprivation is one of the challenges you have to manage in a way that suits you best. From experience I know which times of day I'm likeliest to get the dozies and what signs to look out for. Fortunately I have the ability to fall asleep almost anywhere and I find even a quick nap for half an hour is sufficient to get me functioning again.

    Falling asleep unintentionally when off the bike is pretty common on long rides. I've frequently fallen asleep in a cafe in the middle of the afternoon whilst waiting for the food to arrive.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    Mrs crowriver watched the Adventure Show about the Highlands 1300 with me. She feels now that she understands why people do this audax thing. But she says "it's a bit of a boy thing" even though I did mention there are quite a few female audax riders.

    So it may be a perception issue. Or it may be that it's mainly blokes that are so masochistic as to want to ride 1300k without much sleep! (Taking my cue from the Swedish chap's comments near the end of the programme).

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. DaveC
    Member

    "Falling asleep unintentionally when off the bike is pretty common on long rides."

    I agree, on the Merse and Moors, half way up the 'steps' passing Cragside and stopped to wait for a couple of riders. I lay my head down on the grass and was out like a light!

    I found a comfortable drystone wall in Balahulish on the HGWI1300 outside the tourist info centre where I adjusted my body into the gaps and fell asleep straight away.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. fimm
    Member

    Yesbut (and I'm aware this is back to the "in what ways is cycling the same as being in charge of a motor vehicle, and in what ways is it different?" debate) we get all ranty about people who drive when sleep deprived, so how is it OK to cycle on not much sleep?

    <Lights blue touch paper and stands well back>

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. paddyirish
    Member

    I'm with you on that fimm and think that if I was ever to do long distance (for me that's > 300km events), I'd have to train to go fast enough to factor in a 6hr minimum sleep each night (+ cleaning/eating/drinking) and a hotel room would be necessary...

    Taking 10 days to do it instead sounds much more appealing

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. Greenroofer
    Member

    @fimm I think the debate is likely to be along the same lines as running red lights or cycling while intoxicated. The difference between people on bikes doing it and people in motor vehicles doing it is about how much risk they impose on others.

    A sleeping HGV driver will destroy anything they hit. A sleeping bus driver has 50+ passengers to think about. A sleeping cyclist is most likely only to injure themselves (subject, of course to them not causing someone else to injure themselves while taking avoiding action).

    Ultimately all these debates show that it's very hard to kill someone with a bicycle, and worryingly easy to do so with a vehicle.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. paddyirish
    Member

    @greenroofer

    "My 'wrong' is less wrong than your 'wrong'. Therefore my 'wrong' is a right."

    Is that what you mean? ;-)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. Greenroofer
    Member

    @paddyirish I think we'd have to stop at the end of the first sentence: "My 'wrong' is less wrong than your 'wrong'." In my post earlier I avoided saying what side of the debate I stood on, and wouldn't want to be seen as an apologist for anyone who does something silly on the road.

    Thinking about it a bit more, though, falling asleep on a bike is the only thing that one can understand (but not condone). For all the other law-breaking (running a red light, not having lights, being drunk) the cyclist makes a binary decision "I will run that light, set off without lights, have a drink". Being tired is the only one where it's hard to judge how tired you are until it's too late. Sometimes it should be obvious (like that chap who drove his 4x4 and trailer off a bridge and into a train), but often it's not.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. Darkerside
    Member

    Discussed the audax gender split with Ms DarkerSide, who mentioned two female-specific obstacles to participation: a) increased difficulty for ad-hoc toilet stops and b) personal safety, being a lone female rider in the dark in the middle of nowhere.

    The latter was an aspect I hadn't considered at all.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. Roibeard
    Member

    @paddyirish - it's probably along the same lines as cycling without a license. Not a question of wrong, just not worth bothering as far as society is concerned.

    If, however, one insists in controlling a dangerous amount of kinetic energy, then society "insists" that is done with due training and "controlled" by laws.

    Similarly, if you wish to endanger yourself by wandering up a Munro, ill-equipped for the weather, you can - in the grand scheme of things, society lets people do foolish things without criminalising them.

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Thinking about this overnight, I'd have to say that falling asleep while using a carriage on the public highway is not good roadcraft. The highway code only has rules for the drivers of vehicles;

    https://www.gov.uk/rules-drivers-motorcyclists-89-to-102/fitness-to-drive-90-to-94

    but I think these could usefully apply to cyclists also. If you fall asleep cycling and veer into the path of a car, the driver will be distraught and the emergency services put through the wringer needlessly. That doesn't seem fair.

    There are off-road endurance cycling events like the Strathpuffer where sleep deprivation can be experienced without putting other's wellbeing at risk.

    No one would accept a four-day car driving time trial marathon on the public roads. Perhaps there's sauce for the gander here?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. acsimpson
    Member

    I'm reviving an old thread to ask a question about ECEs.

    I'm planning to ECE the Border's night event in a couple of weeks and have a couple of questions.

    Firstly I'm looking at doing 150km to and 50km from the event on a mandatory route. Can anyone tell me what what route file I should submit? Do I just need to submit the 200km of ECE route or do I also need to include the event route? If it's the latter does that mean I am then riding the event on a mandatory route basis?

    I'm also assuming that there's no requirements regarding the split of to and from distances so you could ride 190 to and 10 from if that suited your circumstances.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  19. amir
    Member

    For your second q, yes I believe you can. At the extreme, you just do one way.

    For the first q, not sure. I think I did this a few years to convert the Dick McT into points. That route is 160, but registered as 150 due to rules. My one way ece is 42 km at the shortest. So a mandatory ece gets the job done with min effort. But I can't recall what I submitted before the ece. I will have a look tomorrow on the pc.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  20. edinburgh87
    Member

    @acs - I ECE'd one of Lucy's events with Bill a couple of years ago. I just uploaded the full route (event + ECE) as a GPX and the same upon completion and had no complaints.

    And yes, you could theoretically do +99 / +1 to/from AIUI on a mandatory route.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  21. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @acsimpson I think you can only submit one GPX per ECE entry so am presuming it will have to include a representation of the calendar event in the middle. That said, validation of the calendar event is separate to the ECE so I don't think you have to necessarily follow the submitted route on the calendar event (though potential for deviation on BN may be quite small?)

    When it comes to validation of the ECE, it should be possible just to submit GPXs of the ECE legs:

    https://audax.uk/about-audax/event-types/extended-calendar-events-eces/ece-faqs/

    "8 How do I obtain proof of passage?

    A receipt showing time and place at each control location; otherwise a unique stamp or signature that can be verified (mostly at the calendar event controls). Alternatively a gpx track of either the ECE legs or the total ride; emailed to the ECE organiser. ECE by GPS has the advantage of being able to start and finish the ECE leg absolutely anywhere."

    PS the finish control for BN is a couple of miles short of Brampton at Newtown village hall on the A6071

    Posted 1 year ago #

  22. amir
    Member

    Sorry - I was wrong about the ECE that I did - I did this just by indicate points on the route - which did add up to 50km.

    And I always just send in the whole GPX for ECE + calendar for validation.

    I have found that the ECE organiser is not too fussy about specification of the route. For a recent ECE, I went to Gala via the Moorfoots and Inners and returned on the A7, but just said where I was starting and ending, without indicating intermediate points. And the direct route is only 42km.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  23. acsimpson
    Member

    Thanks all, The FAQ also allows validation by a strava link which is a bit simpler than DIYs.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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